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Bad ebay Seller and Cultivar Discussion.


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It's a long time I wanted to open this thread about that seller! Well, here I am!!

I want to tell you about Zenflora:

His shop

As you can see he's even selling plants and seeds with location data...

SARRACENIA FLAVA "Red Burgundy" x PURPUREA x LEUCOPHYLLA PINK -> it S. x Juthatip Soper

 

SARRACENIA LEUCOPHYLLA red Franklin County, Fla.t I think it is the Carniflora clone Sarracenia x leucophylla 'Royal Red' of extreme-plants

SARRACENIA LEUCOPHYLLA (Ben's Bog,Baldwin Co.,Alabama) This is the famous clone, a garden hybrid, circulating with many names, like: mitchelliana x leucophylla, leucophylla x moorei, moorei x moorei, purpurea x moorei...etc...etc...

Some Dionaea with new names, but it's evident that they are typical Dionaea:

 

DIONAEA MUSCIPULA "Jupiter" gigantica

DIONAEA MUSCIPULA "Red Mars" (a normal red Dionaea)

Heliamphora, sold with the same name, but...

H. nutans 1

H. nutans 2

Ok, what about the Cephalotus then?? C. f. Big Boy

MY SUGGESTION IS: PAY ATTENTION TO THIS SELLER!!

Make a thread about your deal, before buying anything!! ;)

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Yep, I agree. Obvioulsy all his plants come from Carniflora. I have visited many times this nursery in the Netherlands and I know quite well what plants they offer.

However, It seems that this guy is just a reseller - nothing else.

About the Cephs, ha ha ha ha... what a joke. Тhose plants are nothing different than Typical Cephs.

I do not want to continue to comment the rest offered plants from this guy. The story is the same аnd well described in the fisrt post above.

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it is quite worrying that large numbers of mis-labelled plants may now be out there, and then be swapped or sold adding to the confusion....

the address given by the seller is a flat in a tower block in London, not a greenhouse in sight (Google streetview)!

Edited by gardenofeden
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In what way is he bad? Has he cheated anyone?

He may have attached some new names to plants that are not particularly special but even well known nurseries do that its seems to be a common practice now.

If his plants match the photos and descriptions then I dont think he is doing anything wrong, just using normal sales tactics.

Apply a bit of common sense if it looks like a typical then it is a typical regardless of any fancy name it is sold under

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In what way is he bad? Has he cheated anyone?

He may have attached some new names to plants that are not particularly special but even well known nurseries do that its seems to be a common practice now.

If his plants match the photos and descriptions then I dont think he is doing anything wrong, just using normal sales tactics.

Apply a bit of common sense if it looks like a typical then it is a typical regardless of any fancy name it is sold under

What are you saying??? :ireful1:

It is strictly forbidden (At least in the world of carnivorous plants) to give names or location data to a plant that doesn't have.. What about, if I sell you a S. x moorei Adrian Slack (that almost looks like the real one, but it is not the original), just because I decided to give it that name??

What about if I grow a S. x moorei from seed, and sell it with location data like S. x moorei Walton Co. ?? Would you be happy?

And in the end, what about if you buy a fake Cf Big Boy from a guy that originally bought it from Zenflora??

I would be very angry in all those cases!!!

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What are you saying??? :ireful1:

It is strictly forbidden (At least in the world of carnivorous plants) to give names or location data to a plant that doesn't have.. What about, if I sell you a S. x moorei Adrian Slack (that almost looks like the real one, but it is not the original), just because I decided to give it that name??

What about if I grow a S. x moorei from seed, and sell it with location data like S. x moorei Walton Co. ?? Would you be happy?

And in the end, what about if you buy a fake Cf Big Boy from a guy that originally bought it from Zenflora??

I would be very angry in all those cases!!!

I was just going by the Dionaea links on ebay. He can call them what he likes. If hes selling a recognised named plant or registered cultivar that is clearly not then thats a different story. But it can be difficult to tell with many non registered cultivars. I dont grow Sarrs so am unfamiliar with how they are named. Is he selling plants which arnt the real thing? Sorry for my ignorance but how would you know that they are fakes if they look like the genuine thing?

Perhaps someone can tell me about the use of location data. Does tht mean it has to come fresh picked from the wild? Why can he not have plants from this location?

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If hes selling a recognised named plant or registered cultivar that is clearly not then thats a different story. But it can be difficult to tell with many non registered cultivars.

It can be difficult with cultivar too...for example, with JA1, you are not able to recognize it without a label.. (I sincerely don't understand why such a cultivar was accepted as a new cultivar, but we are not discussing about this :P).

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If she is selling normal Cephs as "Big Boy" then that is fraud, plain and simple. Calling a normal plant by a rare clone name just to rack the price up is illegal and immoral. She has sold a LOT of "Big Boy" and other "rare" clones over the last few months including location Darlingtonia which go for 2 or 3 times the normal price at least. I have doubted this seller from the start, as who has 50plus mature "Big Boy" for sale? It is still quite rare in cultivation. If anyone feels they have been defrauded then they should take it up with the police and trading standards.

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It goes back to that old saying,if it looks too good to be true----it usually is!

As Stephen says "who has all those for sale"

Even good reputable growers only have a few of the rarer clones.If they wanted to make money you'd think they would be propagating these clones none stop.

Always do your homework,ask for pictures and check where "they" got their plants from.If you want the real thing in the cp world you usually have to pay a bit more or wait,sometimes both.

ada

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Let me say first that I do not know this person and am just being an unbiased onlooker

If she is selling normal Cephs as "Big Boy" then that is fraud, plain and simple.

This is true but I notice your use of the work 'if'. Are they actually fake? is there real evidence?

She has sold a LOT of "Big Boy" and other "rare" clones over the last few months including location Darlingtonia which go for 2 or 3 times the normal price at least.

Out of interest I did a quick count and she has sold 22 'Big Boys' in 6 months, is that alot? Dont know about the rest. Is it not possible to get 22 plants in the time the cultivar has been around?

I have doubted this seller from the start, as who has 50plus mature "Big Boy" for sale? It is still quite rare in cultivation.

Seems she has not just been doubted but tried and sentenced without any real evidence.

If anyone feels they have been defrauded then they should take it up with the police and trading standards.

Im sure someone would have by now if they had. If you are convinced of this why dont you contact the police?

There is also no negative feedback that I can see so Im confused by why she is a fraud. Surely someone would have left a neg feedback by now if she was selling fakes.

Again I dont know this person its just I cant see the problem here. She doesnt seem to be doing anything fraudulent.

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Mantrid please try to be serious.

If a person sells you 1 or 30 fake Rolls-Royce what do you think??

Many people here in the forum can identify if the plants are original or fake, probably you're not able to know them and you climb on mirrors to defend anyone??? How?? What??

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Not really defending her, she might very well be selling fakes. Im just saying its a bit unfair to call someone a fraud without definate evidence to back it up.

If they are fake I am curious as to why the 22 buyers of this plant on ebay havent given neg feedback or why has she been trading on ebay so long without being banned? Wouldnt someone have reported her? I dont think these buyers are beginners as to buy a named, rare plant like this they must have some experience in recognising them.

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Not really defending her, she might very well be selling fakes. Im just saying its a bit unfair to call someone a fraud without definate evidence to back it up.

If they are fake I am curious as to why the 22 buyers of this plant on ebay havent given neg feedback or why has she been trading on ebay so long without being banned? Wouldnt someone have reported her? I dont think these buyers are beginners as to buy a named, rare plant like this they must have some experience in recognising them.

How long are you growing carnivorous plants? When was the first time you heard about S. x moorei, Adrian Slack? Any new grower, going through a forum, is able to understand which clones are the best, and when you see it for 20£ on ebay, it's a very good occasion to buy a rare clone...but not all are able to recognise it, or are even able to see if the seller is a fraud by watching at her other auctions... She is not getting negative feedback because anyone would buy a fake plant, just to give a neg. feedback, and the other who buy from her, evidently they doesn't know what they are buying...

She had never been banned because there is no way to report a wrong labelled item on ebay...

Edited by prized
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I don't think many people would own up and admit to buying a fake,i think they will just put it down to experience so it doesn't affect their e-bay feedback.

Or worse they might even sell on their fakes to more unsuspecting buyers.

If in any doubt about a plant don't buy it from someone you hardly know.

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I dont think these buyers are beginners as to buy a named, rare plant ....

Oh dear, sorry to disapoint you but I know people, even some of them from my country who were misleaded by the low price and they bought Cephs from this seller labeled as " Big Boy". I told them not to buy those Cephs, because they aren't infact real " Big Boy" and they are just Typical, but they didn't listen to me and u know why - beacuse they are 16 - 18 years old without experience. Although I told them to ask for pics from the seller of the mother plant of the so - called "Big Boy" of her listing and where does she have the plant - no answer, no answer, and no answer! However, live teaches you sometimes...

She is not getting negative feedback because anyone would buy a fake plant, just to give a neg. feedback, and the other who buy from her, evidently they doesn't know what they are buying...

That's the truth! Well done. :tu:

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Hi,can someone explane me the difference between this clones?

I mean the difference whit young plants ,not adult,i have this clones also,but still not adult and i see not match difference whit a typical.

Also not forgot, big boy is not a registred cultivar ,it s only a name given to a plant whit bigger pitchers i believe ..

I have seen some topic on another forum whit 10 offsets from a typical,7 of this are growing normall ,slow whit little pitchers,the other 3 where monsters ,at least 5 times bigger and whit match bigger pitchers,she all came from te same plant and take the same time.

I think you can see on some topics here on the forum the same thing,it s n ot because she are from the same plant she looks the same.

Are this 3 bigger different ?i think not,so how can you see it s not big boy and it s a typical ?I can not ,if you can see , then there must some realy difference ,even when she are little ,so how can i see if i have the real ones?

I have also 3 typical ,3 different ,so i think it s not easy to say,there are also more cephs whit big pitchers ,like hummers giant and a few others,how can you see the difference?

Plants like this ,you buy them in trust ,but not everyone is to be trust ,i think you never sure you have the right thing,not even when you buy by a very trustfull seller ,hes can meaby think hes have the real ones ,

Cheers will

By the way,allmost all growers that buy or have swap for big boy are very sure she have big boy,when she have offsets from this she are sell this also for big boy ,are this all bad sellers because she think she have the real one?

Edited by will9
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Just buy registered cultivars or plants that are clearly different and stable. The best way to determine if a cultivar is really different is to ask someone who doesnt grow CPs if they can tell it apart. If they cant its not worth wasting your money on.

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