wozzen Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Here is one of Charles's hummers I'm sure Charles won't mind that I've linked it to the forum. Hope your well Charles!! Matthew Edited March 4, 2014 by wozzen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasbrewer Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Sorry wozzen, I took the picture, but that particular plant belongs to my buddy. Edited March 4, 2014 by chasbrewer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jozef Havrilcak Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I'm not sure anybody in Uk is growing a genuine 'Hummer's Giant'. Perhaps we should relabel as UKHG! ;) Would love to import some original material to see how it compares under my growing conditions. Sorry Stephan about my answer but why send u ?? and later u sell next big money? For u CP is not hobby but business sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Sorry Stephan about my answer but why send u ?? and later u sell next big money? For u CP is not hobby but business sorry. I don't understand? I've had this plant for a long time, and as far as I have been aware it is the genuine article, and stands a good chance of being so. So any time I have sold or traded it, this has been in good faith that it is 'Hummer's Giant'. However, recent posts from Australia have made me doubt that we do indeed have the genuine clone over here. Maybe we do? Maybe our growing conditions make it behave differently? I don't think I've ever sold 'Hummer's Giant' for "big money", its quite an easy and common clone so goes for reasonable prices. I certainly don't run a business 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jozef Havrilcak Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) Eden Black : http://www.ebay.co.u...n-/251156365859 188e Sorry next is only from forum but i next auction what i saw : http://www.flytrapca...39.html#p197039 Omg someone won it for 731e Julia Jones : 332e my topic i looking this auction : http://www.masozravk....php?f=3&t=2098 Dudley watts: http://www.ebay.ie/i...s-/251452379725 113e totally : 1364e but this is only few auction what i find no all your auction from ebay, and u have next personally sales. i pay 104e EB, and next next next users pay more or similarly prize . and not in it yet postage so u not have business from CP ? And now Julia - fake plant no reg only get name Julia Jones, Koen have typical with 6cm pitcher Dudley no reg. cultivar sold nice money EB : nobody get color like yours so fake? all pics what i see from others who have EB color: ping or dark/pink no black/dark When is CP for u hobby why u get plants to Ebay - place where u get biiiiiiiiiig money from stupid people But they're your plants Stephan. Your choice of how to treat them I don't start war with u but True see everybody who remember your auction and looking forum... Edited March 4, 2014 by Jozef Havrilcak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Well Jozef I take great exception to a lot of what you have said here, some of which is down to misunderstanding and language issues (I hope!) You seem to forget that for many years I gave Eden Black away for free, for donations to charity. I also send a lot of seed to seed banks and to growers, for free. I also give most if my spare plants away at horticultural society talks I give as I don't have time to sell them. Am I not allowed to sell plants? I don't tell people how much to bid on eBay , it's up to them. I sell or trade plants for a fraction if that off eBay. If you had been at my open day last year you would have got mature Dudley Watts for £10 or £15, mature Heliamphora for £10.... I have greenhouse heating and compost costs like everyone else. When you say "Julia fake plant" what do you mean by that? I did not name this plant, and it's been "large plant from Julie Jones" on my grow list for many years. It is other growers like you that ask for a bit of "Julie Jones" and then distribute it as such. In my conditions this plant grows larger than "typical" plants. I don't claim that this plant us a anything special , it's other growers hassling me for bits as they have seen it on my grow list that creates the demand. I find your comments extremely upsetting and unjustified. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ada Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I think this topic is getting out of hand! I have posted pictures of my young EB plant for all to see,it is getting dark but has been repotted so may need time to get its full colour as it matures. I hope as Stephen says this is a language thing and a bit of a misunderstanding due to it. So well all grow cephalotus! big,small,cultivar or not. Some of these plants have been in circulation for years,pictures have been published.Plants have been sold,swapped and given away all in good faith by respected growers. Lets not get into a slanging match. I only get my plants from people i trust and respect,as well as being direct from the main source if possible. I would never sell or give a plant to someone i am not certain of,we all have to trust someone! I have no doubt over getting any plants from Stephen and am certain he is in the same mind as me, are we all now to doubt all of our plants because of this!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please lets all get along,I have to go to work,like most of us on here,very few of us make CP'S our business and i know Stephen is the same,he has to go to work just like the vast majority of us. Discuss the origins/genes and locations by all means,post pictures for discussion but don't make this personel. RANT OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ADA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jozef Havrilcak Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I'm sorry Stephan My opinion Ada right we go out off topic. So no more answer abou that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Jozef, it's more than opinion, you have accused me of fraud amongst other things. Completely unacceptable behaviour. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Please refer to and abide by the forum rules. In particular rule 2 in this instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Charles asked me to post this photo of John Hummers plant that he in person , got from John , so people could see the plant that is or was being distributed from John Hummer , who no longer grows Cephalotus . may be this will show some people that either there plant or plants that they bought are from this stock plant line. I have photos of the plant from AU and there is some differences, , we assume its from the original plant line here , so ?? John Hummer plant line from Charles. Hummer or original from AU ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jozef Havrilcak Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I did not accuse u Stephan just my reasoning.... thats all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitar Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Charles asked me to post this photo of John Hummers plant that he in person , got from John , so people could see the plant that is or was being distributed from John Hummer , who no longer grows Cephalotus . may be this will show some people that either there plant or plants that they bought are from this stock plant line. I have photos of the plant from AU and there is some differences, , we assume its from the original plant line here , so ?? John Hummer plant line from Charles. Hummer or original from AU ? The question is what is the real plant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus B Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 The second photo looks like my plant that is supposedly from the same material. It has only occasionally produced pitchers with the flaired mid rib, even when trying to grow it under similar conditions to what Charles taught me. Unfortunately I cannot match his conditions with my set up and now my plants are more at the mercy of the weather. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 interesting point Marcus you make , seems to point to the article again about certain matter in growing conditions , i too find it the same as you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ada Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 O.K i've dug out some of my old photos of my HG Check out the midrib of the new pitcher on the right its getting much wider than the previous larger pitcher. Is this because it was maturing?or settling into its growing conditions. ada 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasbrewer Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 The HG got its name because of the large pitchers it produces. If the plant is left to grow, it can produce 6.5 cm pitchers. The leaves of the HG appear to grow larger then your typical Cephalotus plant produces. I grow most of my plants inside a greenhouse. My plants are exposed to extreme temperatures. Temps as high as 38c in the summer to -1c (and lower) during the winter months. Usually the G/H winter temps average around 2.6c, but some winters are much colder then others and G/H night temps easily drop well below freezing (air temps) for short amounts of time. The G/H humidity stays around 75% in the winter months and 85 to 95% during summer months. I think our high humidity keeps the plants from burning up in the summer months. Some growers like to use a water tray under their potted plants. Personally I don't, Instead I water my plants several times a day. ~Charles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus B Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) Flared mid rib or no flared mid rib, as far as I am concerned, the fact that my Giant will grow to nearly twice the size of my other plants, in a good season, sets it apart. Yes some of my other plants may produce a few larger than normal pitchers, but not with the same consistancy. Even the non-carnivorous leaves are much larger on average. Unfortunately it is much slower growing. Some people that I have passed it on to have produced even better looking plants, with bigger pitchers, simply because they have better set ups. It has been amazing how well their plants have grown in 12 months, to bring out their full potential. Edited March 11, 2014 by Marcus B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitar Posted March 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I'm still not convinced what exactly is so called Cephalotus Hummer's Giant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 It is real. And now you can ID it. I'm not sure it matters if it is seed grown or not. I haven't seen any evidence that 'Hummer's Giant' does or does not reproduce via seed. This is something that should be tested, not debated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitar Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 It is real. Naughty naughty Dave, what is real - the name itself or the prime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordovic Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 It is real. And now you can ID it. I'm not sure it matters if it is seed grown or not. I haven't seen any evidence that 'Hummer's Giant' does or does not reproduce via seed. This is something that should be tested, not debated. The ICPS registration (here: http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cpn/Species/v29n4p116_122.html#hummers ) and therefore I assume description, of the cultivar implies the name 'Hummer's Giant' is applicable only to the specific clone and therefore can only be reproduced legitimately by vegetative means. However this last clause isn't explicitly stated so seedlings (eventually) showing identical characters might be permitted the cultivar name on a technicality. But this would be very poor practice, don't you think? Traceability to the 'original' depends on the honesty and good record-keeping of distributors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) No, that is not poor practice. Relying on a lable to tell you what you're looking at isn't very good practice. A cultivar is a cultivated variety, and it can have thousands of individual clones. The key to making the system work is making sure the seedlings are inheriting the pertinent characteristics. Doing more than that (far more than required), you're just being an OCD control freak (I feel it is a similar mental mistake to negative bias/racism--looking down at something in a negative way for no good reason). If you buy a 'Hummer's Giant' that isn't a 'Hummer's Giant' but you can't tell it from the regular varieties and don't know for sure, why buy it in the first place? Just because you saw the name on a list? Maybe 'Hummer's Giant' actually isn't worth more than 'regular' ceph--it is a rather slow growing plant regardless of the clone. We do the same work of reproducing them and nearly the same time waiting for them to develop in sellable plants. Unless it is a lot rarer, why pay more? I buy plants because I think they are pretty or attractive to the eye. There is nothing wrong with selling seed of Cephalotus and labelling it as "selfed seedlings from 'Hummer's Giant'" or "outcrossed seedlings of 'Hummer's Giant'" or a mixture of the two. Any of them that match the original can also be called by the name as well; as they clearly have inherited the unique qualities of the variety (which is what counts and is all that counts). Any other method of "making" 'Hummer's Giants', say by taking a plant and putting a label next to it in the pot which says "h. g." is nothing more than counterfit. Selling regular ceph's as anything other than that is counterfit. Those people are trying to scam you and/or others and there is nothing wrong with posting their names on a list for all to read. If you didn't collect the seed from a 'Hummer's Giant' the only other reason to mention it on seed or seedlings is because it was the pollen parent. And you would write it out similar to this, "Regular Ceph X 'Hummer's Giant'". Now, being "OCD" isn't always a bad thing. It is actually a useful skill that sometime malfunctions. Without folks with OCD and other obsessive thought patterns, we all would probably still be living in caves. The auto and the light bulb might still be just fantasy right now, if not for the work of the obsessed. Edited March 11, 2014 by Dave Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 The "original" plant was noticed by John Hummer who had imported a fair number of Cephalotus cuttings. It was not seed grown and if the location hasn't gone extinct, it might still be present in the wild for all we know. He mass propagated it and many, many folks received the plant from him and then Charles Brewer took over for John. It isn't rare in the states, but might be rare overseas. One of the ways to get around the issue with sending plants over borders is to send seed instead. If we can reproduce 'Hummer's Giant' via seed, it certainly would be to our benefit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitar Posted March 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Dave, if I however, have plant not taken from John Hummer or Charles Brewer and it can't be traced back to them, does this mean that I have fake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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