Loakesy Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) There's recently been a lot of talk about many 'new' species of carnivorous plant, including the humble potato and the tomato, and when you look closely at the leaves you can see why, in that they are covered in sticky hairs. Well, I'd like to suggest another candidate... I have long since considered the possibility, but have written it of as unlikely, but the more I see, the more I'm convinced there's a considerable possibility. May I present Cannabis sativa. I think everyone will recognise this plant, I seriously hope it's not on anyone's grow-list! I come across these plants on a regular basis, I don't actually grow them myself, that would be illegal! If you look closely you can clearly see that this too is covered in tiny hairs, which secrete sticky liquid... it's even more pronounced on the newer leaves and the flower head, than on the older leaves. coincidence? Now, I know that the liquid is most likely to be the part that produces the brown resin we all know as 'Pot' but is is just possible that this mucilage can also catch and digest small insects? I've only ever seen these plants inside buildings, where the insect population is controlled by insecticides. I've never seen them in the wild, so there's been no opportunity for me to observe their feeding habits... Edited January 6, 2013 by Loakesy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Cornish Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I think these man made hybrids produce much more resin and have many more hairs than their wild counterparts. I'm sure that if captured insects were found on these plants we would have heard about it a long time ago. I also very much doubt a plant is going to become carnivorous after being hybridized by man. Regards Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 My recollection from plant biochemistry is that the resin is produced as a sunscreen to protect plants against UV. Would be happy to carry out some cultivation trials though... ;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisscool_38 Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 I've only ever seen these plants inside buildings, where the insect population is controlled by insecticides. I've never seen them in the wild, so there's been no opportunity for me to observe their feeding habits... I have seen it growing outside (illegaly planted, but also legaly planted for textile fibers). I never noticed any insect traped by this resin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hewitt Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) The Trichomes (where the active ingredient THC comes from) on female Cannabis plants, serves to attract Pollinators. Marijuana as you have pictured is grown specifically in a same sex only environment, in order to promote exaggeration of female Reproductive parts. Plants in nature reduce THC production as soon as they are pollinated, in leu of Seed production. As you are very unlikely to encounter a same sex population in Nature, naturally grown Cannabis looks nothing like the pictures you have shown. Cannabis is also an Annual, which means the plant would not see any benefit to insect capture, as they only produce Trichomes at the end of there life cycle (Females) Edited January 4, 2013 by Peter Hewitt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisscool_38 Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Cannabis is also an Annual, which means the plant would not see any benefit to insect capture, as they only produce Trichomes at the end of there life cycle (Females) But it could have benefit for seed production, enhancing seed number and viability. This has been postulated for all Stylidium species that have trichomes only on flower scapes (except for a few species that have also trichomes on leaves). It was also postulated for Capsella bursa-pastoris. Seeds produce mucilage when humidified, with some potential enzymes in it. Carnivory would not benefit directly to the plant, but would help for germination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlatokrt Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Even if it would be carnivorous (which i doubt from several reasons), it is a boring plant in comparison with any regular CP genus we do grow here Although, i have heard that a single cannabis plant in a greenhouse can very significantly lower the pests populations. They are not caught, but they do not withstand the stench... Regards Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andreas Eils Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 Quite a gentle carnivore that first makes its victims "high" before it digests them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loakesy Posted January 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 You must understand that I'm not saying it is carnivorous, rather that it possesses some of the possible characteristics (IE the sticky hairs). I would be interesting to know that there are other plants out there that rely on insect supplements to its diet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) Nah, Cannabis is not a carnivore. The first clue is, it does not produce any water soluble material. That is a resin. Resins cannot dissolve in water and the plant cannot even develop a method for digesting the bugs it "catches". This is also why Roridula cannot become a carnivore, it evolved too far from the leaf chemistry required for a plant to be able to digest anything. So Roridula is a Murderous Plant; but Cannabis is just a little sticky. The stickier, the better I hear. :) Carnivorous Plants are all slimy (where the digestion takes place) and some have sticky traps. Cannabis has no features in common to carnivorous plants, other than being a plant some insects cannot safely walk on. Edited January 9, 2013 by Dave Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) Even if it would be carnivorous (which i doubt from several reasons), it is a boring plant in comparison with any regular CP genus we do grow here Although, i have heard that a single cannabis plant in a greenhouse can very significantly lower the pests populations. They are not caught, but they do not withstand the stench... Regards Adam Cannabis is a kind of mint. I call it Indian Mint. Anyone who thinks it is illegal or should be illegal has got a screw loose in their head. Your Rights as Humans already guarantee your safe access to marijuana or Cannabis for whatever use you deem fit. Only through the application of libel and outright lies does marijuana somehow become associated with crime. The War on Drugs, the heights of a liberal madness--yet so tantalizing of a power trip (with those gorgeous mountains of wasted money, time and lives) not even conservatives can say "no" to it. It used to be black cats and their "evil" people , now its pot plants and their "evil" people. Have we really gotten any smarter? Edited January 9, 2013 by Dave Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 This is also why Roridula cannot become a carnivore, it evolved too far from the leaf chemistry required for a plant to be able to digest anything. Roridula IS a carnivore. It just uses bugs to carry out the digestion instead of bacteria or enzymes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlatokrt Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Cannabis is a kind of mint. I call it Indian Mint. Anyone who thinks it is illegal or should be illegal has got a screw loose in their head. Your Rights as Humans already guarantee your safe access to marijuana or Cannabis for whatever use you deem fit. Only through the application of libel and outright lies does marijuana somehow become associated with crime. The War on Drugs, the heights of a liberal madness--yet so tantalizing of a power trip (with those gorgeous mountains of wasted money, time and lives) not even conservatives can say "no" to it. It used to be black cats and their "evil" people , now its pot plants and their "evil" people. Have we really gotten any smarter? I think i do not completely understand the message you are trying to tell me. I just wrote, that i find this plant quite boring in comparison with CPs and that its stench repells pests (and you cannot say, that the plant does not produce any volatiles - if it stinks or the fragrance is pleasant depends on who is smelling and i really find the smell of cannabis unpleasant). The information about pests came from my friend, who really tried it. I did not tried it yet, but since i have a new (larger) greenhouse, i am thinking about it as a better way than chemicals. You might understand, that i am against Cannabis - i am not. At least for medical purposes, it is an excellent plant. Although i do not like the stench, i use Cannabis ointment on eckzema on my hands. My personal opinion about any drug is, that they are mostly useless (except beer, wine, some sorts of whisky or spirit, which i find tasty ) - i usually find the world interesting enough without lights in my head. But this is my personal opinion and i do not oblige anybody to agree. Regards Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggi_Hartmeyer Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Agricultural grown Cannabis sativa can be found in large fields in Switzerland absolutely legally. In the mid 1990s I passed several fields near the town of Basel (Basilea), when we were driving our practice tours with the Sandoz fire-brigade (A-B-C-gas-measuring group). We had a measuring point (to check discharge of hazardous gas from chemistry) directly beside one of those fields. The very fast growing plants are of course interesting and very sticky when flowering, that is true, but who ever calls it a CP for serious, did probably "not only have a look" at the plants. The resin (containing THC) is produced by glands on the leaves and mainly on the female flowers and is an effective protection against pests, and a reason why the plants practically don't need any pesticides in agriculture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisscool_38 Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Roridula IS a carnivore. It just uses bugs to carry out the digestion instead of bacteria or enzymes. I would add that Roridula DOES produce enzymes. Those are phosphatases, for phosphate metabolisme (Plachno et al., 2008). I know that's not nitrogen metabolism but this has to be also consider as a kind of carnivority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggi_Hartmeyer Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Important is the polarity of the glue. All digesting enzymes which are typically found in CP need a polar aquious acid medium to do their job: degrading large protein molecules into smaller compounds which can then be absorbed by glands. Cephalotus, Dionaea, Drosera, Drosophyllum, Pinguicula, Triphyophyllum, Sarracenia, Utricularia and Nepenthes digest their prey like that. Both Roridula species, Ledothamnus decumbens, Passiflora foetida or the above mentioned Hemp produce resinous glue which is non-aquious and non-polar, therefore the chemical reaction of digesting enzymes cannot take place under these conditions. Therefore every speculation about the digestion of prey with enzymes by these plants is simply nonsensical. Roridula produces actually the strongest but resinous glue and solved the digestion problem with its symbiotic bugs, which digest the prey caught by their host under polar, acid, aquious conditions inside their stomach. After that Roridula absorbes the nutrient rich bug-droppings through its adapted stomata on its leaves, not by specialized glands like i.e. Drosera does. Roridula is only carnivorous if Pameridea bugs are present. Ledothamnus is not considered to be carnivorous because no symbionts are known. Passiflora and Cannabis simply protect their developing fruits/seeds from parasites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Dear Adam, My comments are mostly directed at crazy people in the USA. We've spend billions of dollar going into other countries, telling them to make Cannabis illegal. It isn't our business. And we should be growing hemp here too. Not wasting money and other counties' respect for us on our leadership's insane notions. The reason Cannabis is so smelly is because it is a kind of mint. Mints are known from ancient times as healing plants. They are also generally fully of volatile, aromatic chemicals which are often the source of the healing properties. You human rights include being able to grow and use a Cannabis plant to drive away pest insects in liu of using some kind of dangerous material that can damage your tissues. It really is a human rights problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Roridula IS a carnivore. It just uses bugs to carry out the digestion instead of bacteria or enzymes. So I suppose the Serengeti is a carnivous savanna. Lions and other cats kill or find other animals on it and eat them. Later on, they poop. The poop lands on the Serengeti and it becomes enriched. You can even do a study showing how and where the nutrients flow, just incase someone out there doesn't think the nutrients make their way into the ground. Thanks to this broken logic, we can call anything poop lands on a carnivore. Great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) I''ll try another way. If Roridula leaves are even exposed to the conditions carnivorous plant leaves experience nearly constantly, they will rot. Roridula has no adaptations to carnivory. If you try to grow it as a carnivore, you will most likely kill it. It is a different, much rarer kind of plant. Much rarer than carnivorous plants. I'm only aware of four or five species of this sort of Murderous Plant. Kisscool, I have to read that paper again. But still, if all it is digesting is poop; you'll have to find something else compelling. Edited January 9, 2013 by Dave Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Dave. You need to go smoke some more pot and chill out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Anyone who suggests that sarracenia purpurea ssp. Burkii is a species in its own right must be on some sort of narcotic... ;) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) If Roridula is not carnivorous, then neither are Darlingtonia or most Sarracenia; I think it's only purpurea that has been shown to have enzymes. Would you dispute that a cow digests its own food? They rely on other organisms (bacteria) to digest their food, the only difference is that it is internal as opposed to Roridula which is external (and the bugs are bigger than bacteria!) :) Edited January 9, 2013 by gardenofeden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) Stephen, so does everything else that digests other materials. inlcuding us. We have bacteria in our guts that help us digest our food when it is of animal or plant origin. When there are bugs in the gut, it is usually a sign of infestation of parasites. The example given that the insects act in place of bacteria as some kind of "external stomach" is extremely weak. Talk about being in a narcotic haze... Even the insects have bateria in their guts helping them digest their food the plant catches for them. It is a killer plant, no doubt, it just doesn't eat the things it catches. It effectively sells them. All carnivorous plants have adaptations to prevent this kind of action. Also, not only do Carnivorous Plants have helpful bacteria, they also manage or at least try to manage all the various micro-organisms that collect in/on their traps. They manage them with powerful chemicals, like Plumbagin. On the onther hand, Roridula relies on its commusals to clean the plant and manage the rotting bugs so the Roridula does not become sick. Edited January 9, 2013 by Dave Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 . On the onther hand, Roridula relies on its commusals to clean the plant and manage the rotting bugs so the Roridula does not become sick. Is that your personal opinion, or did a large bug tell you that? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) Actually, folks growing Roridula, both species told me that. They had to manually remove the "prey" since the plant would just catch too much and they had no assassin bugs for their plants. The old bugs mold, then Roridula starts to mold and its not good for the health of the plant. Seriously, all CP's protect their meals from kelpto-parasites. Roridula act like buffets for assassin bugs. I think it (well species than came before) possibly used to be carnivores, but has since become even more specialized and moved away from carnivory. Taking it several step further than N. rafflesiana var. elongata; which provides a roost for bats and partially feeds on bat poop. If scientists say these plants (ex. N. ampullaria) are moving away from carnivory, how is something like Roridula *still* a carnivore? Edited January 9, 2013 by Dave Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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