corky Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 Good news for panmoray then,you have as much chance as anyone of owning the true HG. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) Why none try to go on the original place that the friend of J Hummer took the plants?or why none try to find the original place, i can not understand all those serching travels which made to find new varieties of Carnivorous plans none try to find what realy happen in this unique plant....(As far as i know!) the trouble is the guy who found the original plant / Plants has long been dead, and never told any one where he found the original plants, , Phil Mann though he found the original plants , he showed me , but we can not be 100% sure ,the only plants from the supposedly plants sent to John Hummer can be traced back to Steve Beckwith here in Adelaide South Australia , and not Called Hummer Giant ,just a nice cephalotus by Steve please understand way back then when we or I started growing CP's here in AU 35 or more years ago ,we didn't have names for Cephalotus , they were all just typical cephs , ok , no Hummer giant , Big Boy , Eden Back ,German giant none of this existed here , all ceph were just that cephs and has been pretty well for the last 20 to 25 years till names keep popping up from USA and EU UK , ect ect we new nothing about ,and though you all had some new breed of ceph only to find they were just cephs to us more or less !! Edited December 3, 2014 by snapperhead51 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 John, the fact that Steve sent a batch of plants might mean that they were not all the same clone. Could it be possible that John Hummer selected one particular plant that he received as being larger than the rest and named that one as 'Hummer's Giant'? If so, unless Steve sent out a division of that exact same particular plant to others, then it would be impossible, with any degree of certainty, for someone else to have the plant that John Hummer later named as 'Hummer's Giant'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted December 3, 2014 Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) Hi Carl , from my understanding the plants all were from the same location site ,how one knows this is only from word of mouth !! ,and again it must be understood that a site means that there isolated plants ! ,and in there own inter breeding , not spread all about cross beading with other plants , for EG , the site we suspect that could be the original plants , the nearest location site is some 7 to 10 km away , so no way of cross breeding , this is the case with most sites not all but possibly 99% of them , so I would suggest that the plants sent if from that site would all be the same stock with some usual seed variation as we all ready know , , ,and yes from what was said in a other paper that John selected a few plants out and then sent some other on to friends ??, but how the plant got from the original plant sent to looking to the now HG well is a thing to find out ! and some thing I have been questioning for some time as you know !! time for those who supposed to know to now speak up and tell us the truth or give us the correct information !! Edited December 3, 2014 by snapperhead51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEPBEPOS Posted December 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2014 the trouble is the guy who found the original plant / Plants has long been dead, and never told any one where he found the original plants, , Phil Mann though he found the original plants , he showed me , but we can not be 100% sure ,the only plants from the supposedly plants sent to John Hummer can be traced back to Steve Beckwith here in Adelaide South Australia , and not Called Hummer Giant ,just a nice cephalotus by Steve please understand way back then when we or I started growing CP's here in AU 35 or more years ago ,we didn't have names for Cephalotus , they were all just typical cephs , ok , no Hummer giant , Big Boy , Eden Back ,German giant none of this existed here , all ceph were just that cephs and has been pretty well for the last 20 to 25 years till names keep popping up from USA and EU UK , ect ect we new nothing about ,and though you all had some new breed of ceph only to find they were just cephs to us more or less !! the trouble is the guy who found the original plant / Plants has long been dead, and never told any one where he found the original plants, , Phil Mann though he found the original plants , he showed me , but we can not be 100% sure ,the only plants from the supposedly plants sent to John Hummer can be traced back to Steve Beckwith here in Adelaide South Australia , and not Called Hummer Giant ,just a nice cephalotus by Steve please understand way back then when we or I started growing CP's here in AU 35 or more years ago ,we didn't have names for Cephalotus , they were all just typical cephs , ok , no Hummer giant , Big Boy , Eden Back ,German giant none of this existed here , all ceph were just that cephs and has been pretty well for the last 20 to 25 years till names keep popping up from USA and EU UK , ect ect we new nothing about ,and though you all had some new breed of ceph only to find they were just cephs to us more or less !! The fact that Steve is dead i dont think it is a problem to find the truth about the myth of existance of aunique plant ,i think that we make circles over and over and try to figure out what they do J hummer or Steve and not to try to find or search the original place that cephalotus exist only in south west 'Australia corner" so somehow none try to research this area(I mean people who have experience in this field and not like me!) and it is very accesible place althought that now this place safer from intensive agriculture and livestock and maybe effect negative the cephalotus natural environment and olso the population... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) The fact that Steve is dead i dont think it is a problem to find the truth about the myth of existance of aunique plant ,i think that we make circles over and over and try to figure out what they do J hummer or Steve and not to try to find or search the original place that cephalotus exist only in south west 'Australia corner" so somehow none try to research this area(I mean people who have experience in this field and not like me!) and it is very accesible place althought that now this place safer from intensive agriculture and livestock and maybe effect negative the cephalotus natural environment and olso the population... Panmaroy, think you have your information crossed there, Steve is not dead he is well and alive ,well was the last i spoke to him last year , the guy who gave the plants to Steve is dead long back ,and you need to understand the nature of Cephalots sites, you mite travel 3 hrs from 1 site to the next and u may travel 10 kl too , if you know where to look, hundreds have tired only very few have found them , they grow in very select areas only , have been there and seen them not huge numbers of sites but enough to know what I'm talking about , , its like this , where do you start looking , Augusta , or Esperence, some 6 + hrs drive between and " may be" several thousand sites between cover may thousands of square kilometers ?? where do you look ! ?? it may take a week to find a site looking all day Evey day in the right areas huge areas of heavy thick bush scrub and tall grasses to look through full with poison snakes ,prickly bushes and sharp pointed grass ect ect . there not down the corner shop if you know what i mean ! Edited December 4, 2014 by snapperhead51 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasbrewer Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Hi All, As the story goes, the first box of Cephalotus rhizomes that John Hummer was sent was intercepted by the US customs, so John asked for more rhizomes. This time, the rhizomes made it through to him. He passed a couple of these rhizomes to other people and kept the rest to himself. As his plants grew, one particular rhizome produces a very large pitcher, thus he registered it as "Hummer Giant". When I heard that a fellow, by the name of John Hummer, was selling Giant Cephalotus plants, I jumped at the chance of getting some and from that point on, I continued to purchased lots of plants from John. Eventually, John lost all his Cephalotus due to cold, to much water or what ever...I can't remember what he told me. As for me, I continued to divide his plants up and have been selling them for 30 years now. John's plant(s) tend to be more on the greener side unless you exposed them to lot of light and or cold, then they color up very nicely. Are there more then one clone of HGs, "maybe" as John was not 100% sure that all the rhizomes, he received and grew, came from the same mother plant. The plants that I purchased from John produces a very wide rib and can easily produce 6cm pitchers (top to bottom). Less light, bigger pitchers, more light more color smaller pitchers. Recently I received a picture, from a customer, that was able to produce a 10 cm pitcher from the plant I sold her. (That beats my record of 7.5 cm) If that's not a HG, then I don't know what say. I'm very aware of all the controversy surrounding the Hummer Giant and I really don't have a good answer except to say that "my plants came from John himself". ~Charles 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEPBEPOS Posted December 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) Sorry about my mistake....I dont say that is easy or harmless to find those plants (thats why i was tolking about experienced people and specialists in this field) but it is not like trying to find something in jungle of Borneo.. or in Amazon i think! Edited December 4, 2014 by panmaroy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Sorry about my mistake....I dont say that is easy or harmless to find those plants (thats why i was tolking about experienced people and specialists in this field) but it is not like trying to find something in jungle of Borneo.. or in Amazon i think! well the Ozzy bush can be very intimidating too, walking through swampy heavy bushed ground is not easy , been in Borneo jungles as well , Phillippines as well and other parts of Malaysia as well , I would say its as hard or similar to many trips in low land jungles just different climate and surrounding and plant life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) Charles its a pity you or John dont have more information or keep records of what was what through the past years , , we never got those of the extra large front rib in our plants here .which you would think mite show some where !! but sadly not , that I am aware off any how . may be Marcus B mite have seen some in is state ? Edited December 4, 2014 by snapperhead51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasbrewer Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 snapperhead51, Who would of thought there would be 12+ different named plants in today's market. It seems like every few weeks or so someone comes up with a new (non registered) name for a plant. As for better info, 30 years ago, no one really knew that much about the plant in the US. A few years ago, Phil Mann came to the US and gave a presentation at the International Carnivorous Plant Convention in Massachusetts. He came by my stand to visit and we talked a little. According to him, he was aware of a site, in Australia, that produced plants that had 10 cm pitchers. At least that's the impression he gave to me. Was he BSing, I'm not sure, but he sounded sincere to me. ~Charles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Charles may be not quite that big but the site he showed me the pitchers were a very very good size as were another site too , ,that was the site I referred to a few posts back , Phil had the biggest field knowledge of any one in AU , may be Allen will be close probably , so a massive amount of field and location knowledge has been lost to all of us, fortunately he pass some on to a few people here in AU 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Can we please start by giving accurate facts. John Hummer received the plants in 1986 so there is no way that Charles has been selling them for 30 years. No wonder things get confused if this is the quality of the information supplied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus B Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 This description does make me wonder if anyone knows where the original plant or plants is / are. This green one is often put forward as that but it doesn't fit Hummer's own description. Barry Rice further complicated matters when at the end of the registration he added this ...... Which was of course very foolish and / or naive of him. Several other so called giants were in cultivation before Hummer's and distributed internationally in the 1980s and subsequently. Hummer himself doesn't have the plant so there's no reference to go back to. Personally I don't think you can be confident if you cannot trace the origin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus B Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Unless Marcus B has, without any doubt, a division from the actual plant that was sent to John Hummer, the specific clone he named as 'Hummer's Giant', then there cannot be any certainty that anyone has it in cultivation in AU. As far as I am concerned, the "Giant" that I have has a tendency to grow to similar size, but rarely has the matching mid-rib. Its being from the same stock is hearsay, as those who could confirm it have died. Allen Lowrie assures me that the story is true, but even so, it would only be from the same stock as the HG, so unless it was material sent back from John Hummer, it would not technically be the same clone. On this point I have no clear story, only that it was disturbed around the time that John distributed his samples prior to naming the HG. That is why I will not re-label my plants. Things are confusing enough. My plants are only supposedly from the same stock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus B Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Hi All, As the story goes, the first box of Cephalotus rhizomes that John Hummer was sent was intercepted by the US customs, so John asked for more rhizomes. This time, the rhizomes made it through to him. He passed a couple of these rhizomes to other people and kept the rest to himself. As his plants grew, one particular rhizome produces a very large pitcher, thus he registered it as "Hummer Giant". When I heard that a fellow, by the name of John Hummer, was selling Giant Cephalotus plants, I jumped at the chance of getting some and from that point on, I continued to purchased lots of plants from John. Eventually, John lost all his Cephalotus due to cold, to much water or what ever...I can't remember what he told me. As for me, I continued to divide his plants up and have been selling them for 30 years now. John's plant(s) tend to be more on the greener side unless you exposed them to lot of light and or cold, then they color up very nicely. Are there more then one clone of HGs, "maybe" as John was not 100% sure that all the rhizomes, he received and grew, came from the same mother plant. The plants that I purchased from John produces a very wide rib and can easily produce 6cm pitchers (top to bottom). Less light, bigger pitchers, more light more color smaller pitchers. Recently I received a picture, from a customer, that was able to produce a 10 cm pitcher from the plant I sold her. (That beats my record of 7.5 cm) If that's not a HG, then I don't know what say. I'm very aware of all the controversy surrounding the Hummer Giant and I really don't have a good answer except to say that "my plants came from John himself". ~Charles I remember Charles telling me about his trips to see John and to learn how he grew his plants, practises that I tried to put in to place with my plants, to which only the "Giant" responded with larger pitchers. However, Charles has also shared with me how he has obtained larger pitchers from other clones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus B Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Charles may be not quite that big but the site he showed me the pitchers were a very very good size as were another site too , ,that was the site I referred to a few posts back , Phil had the biggest field knowledge of any one in AU , may be Allen will be close probably , so a massive amount of field and location knowledge has been lost to all of us, fortunately he pass some on to a few people here in AU I remember Phil sharing about his discovery of another giant sized Ceph on the ICPS forum. Unfortunately he got flamed by a newby and took offence. I never heard anything more about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus B Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 Can we please start by giving accurate facts. John Hummer received the plants in 1986 so there is no way that Charles has been selling them for 30 years. No wonder things get confused if this is the quality of the information supplied I think this may be a misunderstanding. From what I remember of what Charles told me about 20 years ago, he had been buying Cephs from John before the HG became available. He already had sizeable collection (300+ plants) by about then and was in the process of learning to grow the HG. Correct me if I am wrong Charles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus B Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 As for colouration, if the HG is anything like the "Giant", it tends to colour up to a lesser extent than other clones. That said, the "Giant" colours up well when small or in small pots but large pots of it in the same conditions stay green with small flecks of colour in my set up. On occasion I have got it to go very dark, and one young plant that I sold was shown to me a year later with pitchers bigger than anything I have achieved and the plant was a dark as any other Ceph in my collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 I think this may be a misunderstanding. From what I remember of what Charles told me about 20 years ago, he had been buying Cephs from John before the HG became available. He already had sizeable collection (300+ plants) by about then and was in the process of learning to grow the HG. Correct me if I am wrong Charles. It would be good if he did correct it as the story that you have quoted above is chronologically a pig sty. And to declare that a plant that produces a large pitcher has to be a Hummer's is laughable. There are plants out there that will also do the same and they were doing it before Hummer set eyes on his plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozzen Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 I find the topic quite fascinating if truth be told! It's nice to see people coming together to have there say about it all! I feel inadequate to say too much only that I do have a few cephs labeled as "Hummers giant" in my greenhouse - all with different size an colour variations. One day I'm sure someone will be able to find a true hummers.... Well here's to hoping... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 I've asked several times, in various threads, as to whether anyone can trace their 'Hummer's Giant' back to John Hummer and I have never had a reply. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus B Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 I've asked several times, in various threads, as to whether anyone can trace their 'Hummer's Giant' back to John Hummer and I have never had a reply. Charles has already repeated what he told me long ago. "When I heard that a fellow, by the name of John Hummer, was selling Giant Cephalotus plants, I jumped at the chance of getting some and from that point on, I continued to purchased lots of plants from John." Does that not count? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 I've asked several times, in various threads, as to whether anyone can trace their 'Hummer's Giant' back to John Hummer and I have never had a reply. Charles has already repeated what he told me long ago. "When I heard that a fellow, by the name of John Hummer, was selling Giant Cephalotus plants, I jumped at the chance of getting some and from that point on, I continued to purchased lots of plants from John." Does that not count? Of course. but this is the first thread where I have seen that someone can trace their 'Hummer's Giant' back to John Hummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Charles has already repeated what he told me long ago. "When I heard that a fellow, by the name of John Hummer, was selling Giant Cephalotus plants, I jumped at the chance of getting some and from that point on, I continued to purchased lots of plants from John." Does that not count? No I'm afraid it doesn't count. He said that he's been selling them for 30 years which means that he must have acquired one before that and we know that is impossible. Can we please have an accurate account? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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