Why "anthocyanin free" Sarracenia are usually slower than normal Sarrs?

[The body snatcher pod]

Hi!

It is said that all green (antho free) Sarracenias are slower grower than usual Sarracenias. I think that may be exceptions, but usually people who grow, for example, Sarracenia purpurea ssp pupurea var heterophylla (Anthocyanin free), report about they low grow ratio compared with usual red/green purps. I heard similar things for other antho free Sarrs.

Why does it happen? I can understand it. If anthocyanin is made by the plant as a shield againts the solar light, (to protect the plant from high solar radiation,) I understand that anthocyanin actually blokcs part of the sun spectrum (blue and UV) and make the photosyntesis a little bit lower. So, an all green plant, with anything blocking solar rays, and above all, in places where sun isn´t hard enought to damage their leaves (like England or the cloudy North coastal of Spain, where I live) been anthocyanin free would be an advantage and all green plant will grow faster than red (and "shielded") ones.

So, If anthocyanin only shield the plants against extreme sun rays, why (red) shielded plants (who get less solar radiation and lower photosintetic ratio) grow faster than green ones?

[Alexis]

In theory, if anthocyanin plants grew more slowly, flava var. maxima and var. rugelii, along with greener specimens of alata var. alata would also grow slowly than their coloured counterparts, but it isn't the case.

[The body snatcher pod]

In theory, if anthocyanin plants grew more slowly, flava var. maxima and var. rugelii, along with greener specimens of alata var. alata would also grow slowly than their coloured counterparts, but it isn't the case.

Sure. And all red Dionaeas are usually slow growers than typicals and green forms. But many growers reports their antho free purpureas to be slower than redder purps. I heard similar thing about anthocyanin free S. psittacina. I don´t know why. On flytraps, you can apply the "shielding theory", because, usually, the redder the plant is, the slower it grows. But it seems it can´t be apllied on Sarracenias (at least on purpureas). Why? Anthocyanin should make the same job in bouth plants, but... why are we getting different results? Are anthocyanin lacking in purps, related with another genetic lacking or disorder, making the plant less vigorous?

On the other side, flava var. maxima and var rugelii, and green alatas are usualy not true anthocyanin free plants. You can see a little pink in their early flower buds (the colour disapears as the bud grows) and on the crown. So, the plant has some anthocyanin, and it may retains a little bit of this red pigment in their leaves. So few, that we are not able to see it.

But true all green sarrs (al least purps) are said to be slow growers. If they can get more energy from the sun than their redder brothers, so they can make more suggars, why are they growing slower? (Considering anthocyanin as a merely sun shield. Simplifiying, because anthocyaning has some biological activity).

VFT usually grows the slower when the redder. Here we can say the antocyanin blocks part of the solar spectum and make the plants less "energy efficient", so, red plant grows slow. But is not the case on Sarracenias (at least on purps and psittacinas).

I have purchased some all green purps, some all red purps and I have normal purps. When spring arrives, I will measure the growing in those plants, loking for the fast and the lost growers.

Edited February 10, 2012 by The body snatcher pod

[ada]

I grow a few antho free sarra's.Certainly they are slow when small or young seedlings.

But when mature some are certainly vigorous. i.e the antho free leuco,slow whilst small but when mature a very good grower and the pitchers are large and long lasting.

The antho free flava from Telogia is not as large but very vigorous,this also applies to the antho free moorei's,"green monster" and the antho free F2 minor.

The antho free alata is a good grower too,even though mine is still small.

In fact the only antho free plant that i find really slow is the original antho free minor(F22)?

The antho free psittacina(wewahatchika form) is also very vigorous when mature and divides so often you don't know where to start when you want to divide it.

ada

[meizwang]

One possibility is that a lot of the antho-free material in cultivation resulted from selfing an atho-free parent (you'll typically get 100% antho free plants from selfing an antho-free parent). F-2's in sarracenias tend to be slower growing.

[The body snatcher pod]

Thanks for your replies!

[Alexis]

Antho free examples of gilpini and courtii seem to vigorous enough as well.

There are some slow growing S. purpurea subsp. venosa var. burkii f. luteola examples in cultivation though.

[ada]

Alexis,the original S. purpurea subsp. venosa var. burkii f. luteola is slow when small,but i've found it to be o.k when it gets larger.

The Liberty co form is slow, from the seedling i've got growing. But this could change.

ada

[Jeff Drudge]

This may have since been dealt with, elsewhere at least, but perhaps it's a result of recessive genes. If I recall correctly, the anthocyanin-free state is the result of the expression of recessive genes. Perhaps the slow-growing nature of these plants is linked to associated recessive genes.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Jeff Drudge

[fischermans]

I grow a few antho free sarra's.Certainly they are slow when small or young seedlings.

ada

Yes for sure only a few. 

Edited December 13, 2014 by fischermans

[meizwang]

The original clone of S. alata var. viridescens (antho-free alata) is extremely fast growing. There's also a cross between 2 genetically different S. purpurea ssp. purpure f. heterophylla plants and all the offspring are equally fast, if not faster growing than the regular purpurea ssp. purpureas. If recessive genes alone were responsible for slow growth, these plants should be slow growing.

[Ordovic]

Keep in mind that Caryophyllales, such as VFT's, sundews and Neps utilise betalains for their pigmentation and not anthocyanins.

 

 

 

...There's also a cross between 2 genetically different S. purpurea ssp. purpure f. heterophylla plants and all the offspring are equally fast, if not faster growing than the regular purpurea ssp. purpureas. If recessive genes alone were responsible for slow growth, these plants should be slow growing.

 

Quite the contrary! Actually, this demonstrates the likely role of homozygous state in the 'slow-growing' antho-free clones. In order to preserve the recessive antho-free genes the necessary selfing and inbreeding results in much of the plants genome being homozygous (both of the pairs of genes having the same alleles) proven to result in smaller &/or weaker &/or slower growing plants. When two antho-free clones are crossed that have acquired the characteristic independently or through different lineages (or backcrossing etc.) then the progeny will likely be considerably more heterozygous for the whole genome than either parents while still being homozygous for the relevant 'antho-free' genes. These plants will therefore be more vigorous and being as vigorous as typicals would imply the antho-free state in and of itself is not responsible for poor growth only the inbreeding to achieve it!

 

That said, antho-free plants in my experience don't perform as well as typicals and I my suspicion (though I've no evidence to support the hypothesis) is that anthocyanin is more than just sunblock and also performs some other metabolic function we may not realise or underestimate the importance of (such as as an antioxidant) that would effect growth.