13 replies to this topic

[Andreas Wistuba]

Hello all,
here are some pictures of Heliamphiora ciliata, the first real lowland Heliamphora.









Bye

Andreas

[Andreas Fleischmann]

Beautiful photographs Andreas, thanks for sharing!

It is interesting that in the CP community, there seem to be only two altitudinal ranges:  highland and lowland. ;)
Maybe this "bad" habit is a result of Nepenthes cultivation, hahaha ;).

Of course, H. ciliata is not a "lowland species" in ecological terms:
Like stated in our article, H. ciliata does of course not grow in the LOWLANDS of the Gran Sabana (which is the Orinoco basin, for example, ranging from sea level to about 500 m). The lowlands of the Gran Sabana in Venezuela are far too hot to support growth of tepui dwelling plants, and they usually experience a pronounced dry season. These conditions are most likely not supporting the growth of any Heliamphora in the lowlands (but are perfect for some annual tropical CPs, like D. sessilifolia or annual Utricularia).
H. ciliata in contrast grows in the UPLANDS of the Gran Sabana (500-1500 m a.s.l.), in so-called "broad-leaved savanna" vegetation. This vegetation type is composed of many plant genera that are usually confined to the tepui summits, like Stegolepis, Abolboda etc., and it only occurs at elevated parts of the Gran Sabana, where cool seeping water is creating climatically "preferred" areas for Helimaphora growth, surrounded by Gran Sabana scrub or dry savanna vegetation. The spots where H. heterodoxa grows in the Sierra de Lema surrounding Ptari tepui are almost identical to the habitat of H. ciliata.

All the best,

Andreas

[Laurent]

Very nice heliamphora!
Close to pulchella?

Laurent.

[Andreas Wistuba]

Andreas Fleischmann, on 31st December 2009 - 12:27 PM, said:

Of course, H. ciliata is not a "lowland species" in ecological terms:
Like stated in our article, H. ciliata does of course not grow in the LOWLANDS of the Gran Sabana (which is the Orinoco basin, for example, ranging from sea level to about 500 m). The lowlands of the Gran Sabana in Venezuela are far too hot to support growth of tepui dwelling plants, and they usually experience a pronounced dry season. These conditions are most likely not supporting the growth of any Heliamphora in the lowlands (but are perfect for some annual tropical CPs, like D. sessilifolia or annual Utricularia).
H. ciliata in contrast grows in the UPLANDS of the Gran Sabana (500-1500 m a.s.l.), in so-called "broad-leaved savanna" vegetation.

Hi Andreas,
compared to the populations of H. heterodoxa that I know from the Gran Sabana (which are situated higher than 1000 meters asl), the only site I have visited for H. ciliata is below 1000 meters asl and _REALLY_HOT_. The water in the swamp looked like standing warm water to me.
My impression of the climate in the region near La Escalera (H. heterodoxa) during several visits always appeared cool and similar to a small Tepui while I really felt like being in a sauna both times I visited H. ciliata. The climate was completely different at both localities, at least during my visits. Furthermore the H. ciliata plants grow in shallow depressions and the water is accumulationg there, rather than flowing through the site. Honestly I'd not even be surprised if the altitude measurement made by Otto Huber would be too high but my little camera-GPS does not measure altitudes so I do not wish to make any statement in this respect.
However from a growers standpoint I really would call this a lowlander.
All the best
Andreas

Edited by Andreas Wistuba, 31 December 2009 - 10:33 AM.

[Sockhom]

Very nice pictures Andreas (wistuba). Thanks for that.

Laurent, on 31st December 2009 - 10:33 AM, said:

Very nice heliamphora!
Close to pulchella?

Laurent.

Hi Laurent,

Everything is in the description that Andreas Fleischmann kindly provided here:
http://www.ingentaco...000002/art00006

Andreas Fleischmann, on 31st December 2009 - 10:27 AM, said:

It is interesting that in the CP community, there seem to be only two altitudinal ranges:  highland and lowland. ;)
Maybe this "bad" habit is a result of Nepenthes cultivation, hahaha ;).
All the best,

Andreas

I agree with you Andreas (Fleischmann).
This is a bad habit which is, as you pointed out, arguably a result of the predominance of Nepenthes growers in some cercles of discussions and in many CP societies (allow me to point them as Nepenthes is my favourite genus ;-)).
From the grower point of view - growers tend to categorize- we have 2 (or 3) altitudes.
I would informally call ciliata a "lowlander" but I would sure grow it as an intermediate and I don't think it could be grown with "real" lowland plants like N. bicalcarata , N. madasgascariensis or D. burmanii.
Heliamphora ciliata is, from an ecological point of view, clearly a submontane species.


Truly,

François, a Nepenthes grower which is drifting away from Nepenthes to embrace other genus as well...  ;-)

Edited by Sockhom, 31 December 2009 - 10:37 AM.

[Andreas Wistuba]

Andreas Fleischmann, on 31st December 2009 - 12:27 PM, said:

The spots where H. heterodoxa grows in the Sierra de Lema surrounding Ptari tepui are almost identical to the habitat of H. ciliata.

P.S.
I cannot confirm this, honestly - please see my other post.
All the best
Andreas

[jeff 1]

some authors for this part between 500 and 1200m speaks about "hill Lands" rather than "lowlands" , they are flats zones or soft inclined, sandy, with a poor vegetation of the type graminaceous,perhaps with some marsh or swamp,  it is the typical landscape of the south of the gran sabana according to them.

agree you ?

in north between 200 and 600 m not  any  layer sedimentary on account  of erosion, the rocks of the base levels appear on the surface ,with covered hills of small forest with by place some  inselbergs (little island hill)

agree you ?

jeff

Edited by jeff 1, 31 December 2009 - 13:45 PM.

[Dave Evans]

Sockhom, on 31st December 2009 - 11:21 AM, said:

From the grower point of view - growers tend to categorize- we have 2 (or 3) altitudes.
I would informally call ciliata a "lowlander" but I would sure grow it as an intermediate and I don't think it could be grown with "real" lowland plants like N. bicalcarata , N. madasgascariensis or D. burmannii.
Heliamphora ciliata is, from an ecological point of view, clearly a submontane species.

Dear François,

While most D. burmannii are lowland members of lowland populations, this species has been photographed at rather high alitudes, including the top of Phu Kradung and was found growing next to N. glabrata and N. maxima at 1,200 meters near Lake Poso, Central Sulawesi.  I'm not really sure how this species might be "classified", clearly it is adaptable to highlands and lowlands.

I would put this new species in a category I call "intermediate".  Intermediate species are those, similar to lowland species can take some hot weather, but need some cooling at nights.  I don't "assign" species based on altitude, but just use altitude as a guide, which is why I don't think we should put D. burmannii in a lowland or highland category, but perhaps it is better classified as an "annual regardless of altitude".  While a species from a much more narrow altitudinal range, H. ciliata, which typically grow in warm days, followed by (not measured yet, but most likely) cool nights is an intermediate. For it to "qualify as lowland" the days should be warm to hot and the nights also warm.

lowland   0 - (800 and possibly up to 1,200 meters)
intermediate (500 to 800) -  1,500
highland  800 - 2000
ultrahighland  (1,800-2,200) - 3,500 plus

The reason my numbers overlap, is because temperatures in various climates, as well as the needs of various species also overlap.  For example: We could find a meadow where two species overlap and yet one is a highlander at the bottom of its range while the lowlander is at the height of its range.  N. ampullaria and N. spathulata have been observed growing in the same field in Sumatra, near Lake Toba (personal comm. w/ James Bockowski).

Edited by Dave Evans, 31 December 2009 - 20:45 PM.

[Dave Evans]

please remove.

Edited by Dave Evans, 01 January 2010 - 17:10 PM.

[loligo1964]

Hello Andreas,

So the Heliamphora sp. "Lowland" that you were distributing is indeed H. ciliata? Some other grower had mentioned a nursery in the UK as a source of it . . .

[Fernando Rivadavia]

Hi Andreas (X2) and Joachim, congrats on the 3 new Helis!


As for the "record" low altitude of H.ciliata, I'm sure I must've told Andreas F. that 5 years ago Gert, Stew & I found a "lowland" population of H.tatei on Cerro Avispa at 860m alt. :)


Best wishes,
Fernando

[Sockhom]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for reminding me of the "highland" D. burmanii. Sorry, it was a poor example but I bet you get what I meant. ;-)

Fernando, interesting about the 860 m high H. tatei. Was it just a handful of isolated strains or a real (even small) population?

Truly,

François.

Edited by Sockhom, 01 January 2010 - 00:38 AM.

[Fernando Rivadavia]

Quote

Fernando, interesting about the 860 m high H. tatei. Was it just a handful of isolated strains or a real (even small) population?

Not sure what you mean, but it was a fair group of plants, not a big population. We didn't search other lowland sites, so don't know how common this is.


Best wishes,
Fernando

[jeff 1]

see here the report

http://www.cpukforum...showtopic=27408

perhaps some explication  on the name H.tyleri ( Gleason 1931)  and the  rank of H.macdonaldae (Gleason1931) ?

this intermediate zone named ' hill lands ' ,  in Europe ( in the Alpes ) is known as:

from  600 to 1200 m    stage 'collineen'  
from 1200 to  1900 m  stage ' montagnard'

then after comes the stages

subalpine from 1900 to 2400 m
alpine from 2400 to 3000 m
nival from 3000 m to more

jeff

Edited by jeff 1, 02 January 2010 - 09:05 AM.