Watering heliamphora

[Guest Olivermurray7373]

Today i received this heliamphora nutans x heterodoxa. I had one before but it died do I thought I would have another go at it. So I got it and I want to know how to water it because I am shure that was how it died. I know to use pure water but I gust don't know how much or the method.

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[Guest Olivermurray7373]

Ps it is in a really humid highland terrarium and should I put water in the pitchers?

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[FredG]

Overfill the pitchers, the plant will then regulate the level.

I sat mine in water for years, it was the winters they didn't like.

[Guest Olivermurray7373]

Should I just do it with my deionised water?

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[Carnivine]

I have also just purchased an identical plant. I was advised to stand i on capillary matting kept just damp. Is this ok for it or does it need to have its feet in water.  Also Fred, do I need to fill the pitchers with rainwater to the top of just about half way?

[dimitar]

I have and grow only one plant H.minor. I water the plant from above  - top watering.

I fill the pitchers regularly with water but as Fred pointed above already the plant regulate the level of the water.

[FredG]

Oliver, you should be using rainwater by now.

Ady, overfill the pitchers, the plant will lower the level to the correct mark.

 

I don't use capillary matting on any of my CPs. It has always been my understanding that they are bog plants so they sit in water. They have never complained, well not to my face. ( NB I do not grow Nepenthes)

Edited May 18, 2014 by FredG

[Guest Olivermurray7373]

Ye I know but I live near an oil refinery (well ish) and the water is slightly more acidic but anyway I have got a water collection system for my greenhouse.

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[Maiden]

Using rain water is nice, but if you live in a big city, you will end with pollution or else in the water. For my collection i use demineralized water, 0 ppm, and its about 2$ for 30 L.

For the watering, some experienced growers like fredg can grow their helis in standing water mostly because they have the knowledge to know exactly what kind of ventilation they need for their setup.

I suggest you to keep the soil moist by watering the plants from the top twice a week. If you grow them in lower relative humidity, water more. Once again, its all about experience.

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Edited May 19, 2014 by Maiden

[FredG]

Sorry Maiden but I have to disagree,it's nothing to do with experience. I have been sitting my CPs in a couple of inches of water from day one, Cephalotus and Heliamphora included I read about the tray watering method , used it and to my knowledge  so did everyone else at that time, at least I heard nothing to the contrary. It wasn't until the internet intervened that the plants heard stories that they couldn't survive that way, which is totally against my own findings. 

 

(Again I have to say I do not grow Nepenthes)

Edited May 19, 2014 by FredG

[Maiden]

Fredg,

If you keep your ceph and helis in standing water, indoor, from day 1, then you where very lucky to have the right ventilation right at the beginning.

I know you want to defend your point, but 80% of growers who kept their ceph and helis in standing water will end with rot problem.

Its a fact.

Andreas wistuba do not keep their helis in standing.

Butch (av) do not keep their helis in standing.

Same for many heli guru.

The reason is very simple: they dont want sudden death syndrome on their superb plants.

So i dont think its a good thing to bring novice users to grow their plants that way.

Better safe than sorry, dont you think?

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Edited May 19, 2014 by Maiden

[FredG]

But as I said Maiden, I was a novice when I started growing them this way and I've never had any problems so why would I discourage anyone else from doing the same.If you want to say you wouldn't advise to grow them indoors, or in a terrarium or by any other method please state that and not have a blanket don't on all situations.

 

What is sudden death syndrome? Is that when you drop a plant pot on the concrete floor?

[Carnivine]

Thanks for your advice FredG - pitchers now filled :)

[Maiden]

LOL Fredg :)

Sudden death syndrome is roots rot caused by anaerobic media conditions. Heli's roots can stay in a very low oxygen media, but on the long term its risky.

The result is the death of the plant, very quickly. It can happen overnight. Kinda frustrating. Sometime the roots are ok, but the rhizome is brown and mushy. At this point the plant is death.

Many botanists think this syndrome is the result of a internal bacteria, hosted by almost all helis. When the temps get too high, this 'bacteria' just get out of control by the plant vascular system and the plant is attacked. The death is very fast at that point.

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Edited May 19, 2014 by Maiden

[FredG]

Well considering I've been growing CPs sitting in water for 31 years and I have never experienced sudden death syndrome, yet, those that chose to use a different method have incurred the problem. Who has the better selection?

 

Five or Six years ago I was told by an "expert" on Cephalotus that if I grew my Cephalotus in a water tray I was certain to get root rot. When I replied that I had been doing exactly that for 25+ years and wondered how soon this fate would befall me he went quiet. I'm still awaiting that fate.

If Cephalotus cannot be grown this way why are they perfectly happy to sent out shoots through the drain holes of pots when they are underwater. I'm not the only one whom has experienced this.

[Maiden]

Your setup is magic fred :)

On a serious note, i cannot criticise the way you grow your plants because you have succes.

All this depend on too many growing conditions and parameters. I have to see your entire setup to say how your helis/ceph thrive in standing water, indoor.

Your succes depend of:

-the level of water in the tray,

-what kind of water,

-the oxygen% level in your water,

-what is the ventilation around the plants,

-the water movement,

-the soil mix

-the RH% level

-your level of luck

And many others.

So we can talk about this until next week, its very hard to say if we dont see each other setup to have a better knowledge of the growing conditions.

From my experience, what works perfectly for someone can be a disaster for someone else.

I think we have another good example here.

But you have to agree that MANY growers lost their plants with rot problem, in standing water. Thats why i prefer bringing new growers with expensive plants to the less problematic method.

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Edited May 19, 2014 by Maiden

[FredG]

There the thing, as you say the less problematic method. I don't have problems and haven't for 31 years. What is your experience?

Edited May 19, 2014 by FredG

[Maiden]

You are the best fredg :)

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[FredG]

Oh that little

[Phil Green]

Got to say that I agree with Fred regards standing in water.

I've only been growing them for 8 years and I don't grow them in a terrarium, but do grow them indoors stood in a water tray.

I have lost plants in the early years of growing, but only due to a sudden change in the conditions - like moving them outside in the summer and always my biggest plant.

For my money, SDS is related to a sudden change in growing conditions (hot or cold) and not down to how they are watered.

So now they just stay indoors all the time and have been fine ever since. The tray may occasionally dry out for a day if I forget to top up, but not very often.

 

 

But I do also have one H. minor, which has been growing in a basket in front of the window for several years. I 'try' to keep it wet, but frequently fail and it quite often gets very dry (so dry moss can't survive very well on the surface). The basket does have the capability of holding a water reserve in the bottom, but this rarely happens. But this Heli just takes whatever it gets and grows regardless.

 

 

Over the winter the widow to the room is closed and gets very little if any air flow. From Spring to Autumn the window is open.

So I'd say there is no need to grow in a closed case, you should be able to get away with growing as a window sill plant (I do) - The window faces south west.

[Maiden]

Then you not understand my point, like fred.

Look at your pots man. Its not pots, its plastic baskets with holes. And you grow your plant in LFS, so you CAN grow your helis in standing water.

You guys have to realize that the watering method HAVE to FIT with the pot, the soil mix, the ventilation, and many other points.

You guys think everybody grow their plants like you? With same conditions?

Try growing your plants in standing water, in plastic pots, with mostly peat based mix, in high relative humidity with minimal ventilation. You will end with a botrytis ball.

Do you surf on many forums?

Can you see the hundred posts with crying users who just lost their plants because of standing water and lack of ventilation?

You dont grow your helis in a terrarium. Do you realize that new growers will grow their plant in a terra?

Heli sudden death appears from the bottom up as a brown mushiness. No one in the earth can say exactly what is it. So how can you be sure about what you said?

Its very sad, because you guys will push new growers to grow their helis in standing water, and they will have roots rot problem.

I think you should read this:

http://www.carnivorousplants.org/howto/GrowingGuides/Cephalotus.php

Its the same thing for heliamphoras.

Im out of this thread.

Cheers

Edited May 20, 2014 by Maiden

[FredG]

Maiden

 

You have to realise that this is a UK forum. Most, not all but most, will grow their plants in a greenhouse, also most will be adult. The shouting and pleading you refer to is mainly on the North American sites, where the contributors do appear to be prepubescent teenagers being advised mainly by slightly older teenagers who have "spent 5 minutes speed reading the Savage Garden and three weeks growing a Drosera capensis."*** There are older experienced growers willing to give advice but they are often ignored in favour of the "popular vote".

The advice given originally in this thread, that you objected to, was to Oliver (who lives in Scotland and has a newly acquired greenhouse) and to Carnivine ( who lives about 12 miles from me and also has a greenhouse).

 

*** This is a quote from a contributor on a North American site 

[Phil Green]

Then you not understand my point, like fred.

Look at your pots man. Its not pots, its plastic baskets with holes. And you grow your plant in LFS, so you CAN grow your helis in standing water.

 

Maiden - you have completey failed to look at the photos and read my post.

 

The basket is the only one which ISN'T stood in water, but is watered infrequently from above.

If you look at those in the water tray they are in regular pots.

 

Also, I DO NOT grow in sphagnum moss - I can't get on with it. My plants are in a mix of peat and perlite, with just a little moss sometimes added (but not always).

[Phil Green]

You dont grow your helis in a terrarium. Do you realize that new growers will grow their plant in a terra?

 

Perhaps this is what new growers should be advised to avoid, rather than standing water.

After all, those large grower you mentioned also don't grow there Helis in terrariums.

They don't need the high humidity and stagnant air created by terrariums, so why use them?

Edited May 20, 2014 by Phil Green

[Koen C.]

I won't often enter dicussions like this, but I feel like what maiden is saying is very logic and there may be a misunderstanding. I share the opinion that many cp's from beginners die from wrong watering rather then soil mix or humidity. With watering I mean that the way they water their plants doesn't suit their conditions. I speak from experience from other plants then Heliamphora but that doesn't matter.

I think that if you guys grow the Heli's in standing water and that fits in your other conditions, that is perfect. Your plants thrive so your conditions are very good.

I just think it might be dangerous to recommend beginning growers to grow their Heli's in standing water. Unlike a Sarracenia, Heliamphora plants can rot (I know it's not my own experience with Heli's, I just get what Maiden is saying from my experience with other plants) A Heli might rot if he is kept in a humid environment, together with only partial sun (instead of full sun) together with standing water together with a mainly peaty mix. I understand if a Heli is in standing water and in full sun (or much light) with some ventilation, not in terrarium or when the water is allowed to transpirate fast (like loose soil mix, sphagnum, net pots...) or with some orchid bark at the bottom of the pot, they will be very healthy. It's all a matter of viewing all the conditions together. In this regard, I would personally recommend new growers to wait for the soil to get 'moist' before making it wet again. But if I had the right conditions I would maybe try to grow them in standing water.

Personally I have had many plants that died from almost never watering them, yet they rotted from being too wet because they were in a dark area (regular houseplants though)

All i want to say is that the standing water is the extremum from watering condition in which the plants can thrive if they have right other conditions. Otherwise they might rot, so nobody should just 'keep the plants in standing water' without changing their other conditions to that. Just my opinion though.