it's true or false p. x weser?

[Fabricio de Oliveira]

Hi.

I bought as p. x weser. Some people warned me that could not be weser. But I've seen pictures of very similar weser like this plant. What do you think?

I think it's a true weser.

and my pinguicula x sethos for parallel

[cefa@]

i think it's a real x weser too

[werds]

True weser

[Rodrigo]

My friend, on Facebook you had not shown me the second photo and based upon and the statements of other members, affirm that you are possibly the first brazilian grower to have the true P. 'Weser' in your collection.

Congratulations is successful in cultivating it .

Best regards,

Rodrigo

Edited May 26, 2013 by Rodrigo

[kisscool_38]

Clearly not the true 'Weser'. Here you have a picture of the real one:

http://www.natureetpaysages.fr/1129-thickbox/pinguicula-weser-la-vraie.jpg

You have very probably 2 clones of a cross between our european "Fake Weser" (sold as Pinguicula 'Weser' in garden centers, but clearly not the true one) and itself. I would expect such variations for a F2 generation.

[Rodrigo]

Aymeric, in this case even though this plant is descended from the true P. 'Weser' it can not be considered this Ping? That's right or get it wrong?

Best regards

Rodrigo

Edited May 26, 2013 by Rodrigo

[kisscool_38]

You're right. Such cultivars cannot be propagated by seeds, but only by vegetative propagation.

[gardenofeden]

Aymeric, in this case even though this plant is descended from the true P. "Wesser" it can not be considered this Ping? That's right or get it wrong?

Best regards

Rodrigo

Note the spelling is Weser (not Wesser)

[Rodrigo]

Aymeric - The same rule applies to P. 'Sethos'?

Stephen - Typo corrected, thanks for the warning .

Best regards,

Rodrigo

[Fabricio de Oliveira]

Aymeric,

Thanks for the reply.

The second plant in my topic is a x sethos, for comparison. because a friend got the chance to be the first plant x Sethos. As it turns out, the first plant is quite different from my p. Sethos

This plant can be a cross between x weser, how could name this plant?

The real x weser is a clone specific or all plants from the cross (x moranensis ehlersiae) are equal to weser?

In cpphotofinder have pictures of a plant called moranensis ehlersiae x, and has the following comment "Comments: these are the same-que parents produced the cultivars P. 'Sethos' and P. 'Weser'"

http://cpphotofinder.com/pinguicula-x-moranensis-x-ehlersiae--3804.html

And the pictures of the flowers are identical ace photos of my plant.

Could be my plant from the cross between pure moranensis x ehlersiae, but not being specific clone weser?

I've seen several European websites selling plants and has weser like my plant. I think it is a very common mistake of identifying this plant.

This plant is a mystery to me.

Best regards

Fabricio

[kisscool_38]

On 26/05/2013 at 4:33 PM, Rodrigo said:

Aymeric - The same rule applies to P. 'Sethos'?

Yes that's also true

On 26/05/2013 at 6:10 PM, Fabricio de Oliveira said:

This plant can be a cross between x weser, how could name this plant?

Simply Pinguicula (x 'Weser') x (x 'Weser')

On 26/05/2013 at 6:10 PM, Fabricio de Oliveira said:

The real x weser is a clone specific or all plants from the cross (x moranensis ehlersiae) are equal to weser?

It's a cultivar corresponding to a single clone. Take care to carefully write it: Pinguicula x 'Weser'. It's not the same.

On 26/05/2013 at 6:10 PM, Fabricio de Oliveira said:

In cpphotofinder have pictures of a plant called moranensis ehlersiae x, and has the following comment "Comments: these are the same-que parents produced the cultivars P. 'Sethos' and P. 'Weser'"

http://cpphotofinder...siae--3804.html

And the pictures of the flowers are identical ace photos of my plant.?

Take care that the CPP is just a compilation of pictures. As Bob wrote, he is not responsible of misidentification here. If you say your plant is Pinguicula x 'Weser', he will add it in the Pinguicula x 'Weser' folder'. Just, sometimes he is adding some comments when he has some doubts.

On 26/05/2013 at 6:10 PM, Fabricio de Oliveira said:

Could be my plant from the cross between pure moranensis x ehlersiae, but not being specific clone weser??

Yes.

On 26/05/2013 at 6:10 PM, Fabricio de Oliveira said:

I've seen several European websites selling plants and has weser like my plant. I think it is a very common mistake of identifying this plant.

You would be astonished by how many mistakes there are.

Edited February 21, 2018 by kisscool_38

[Dave Evans]

I haven't read the whole thread. However, unless this flower is unusual, this isn't P. 'Weser'.

'Weser' is supposed to have darker purple stripes next to the white. Also, the background color is the same in 'Sethos' and 'Weser', while the flower in these photos appears pink(!) compared to 'Sethos'. Something ain't right :) This actually looks more like 'Sethos' crossed to something else to me.

[Fabricio de Oliveira]

Dave,

Thanks for your comment.

First a question:

Sorry my bad interpretation in English. You meant that my "Weser" is are self "Sethos" crosses? Or my Sethos is a self "Sethos" crosses?

I think you meant that my "Wesser" is a selfed "Sethos" crossed . If it was, my "x Sethos' is pure. Was that it?

About the "Wser" pic, the flower in the picture is pink, but my camera is not very good at color balance. Live it is a bit darker but not as dark purple in the photos. And it's darker than my Sethos as you can see in the photos.

Would not it be more correct self crosses of weser? It may have been a self crosses and some grower has seeds as weser pure. I say this because it would make more sense, and even being clearer, my plant has a white streak and this does not have the Sethos.

Best regards

fabricio

[Dave Evans]

Hello Fabricio, no I mean the flower look like a watered down version of 'Weser'. Perhaps, just a different clone of the same hybrid. There is usually very good contrast with the white stripe as the purple around it is darker than the rest of the corolla. Also, the white area should be more narrow. So more narrow with more contrast.

I do believe this is a true 'Weser'. Perhaps your plant is true, but needs some fertilizer for it to color up better? Maybe my eyes have stopped working?

http://www.insektenf...nguicula-weser/

The soil quality, the pH and other nutrients can have quite and effect on the flowers... So we have to take that in to account as well.

Is this the same exact clone? http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/pinguicula/pinguiculawesser/species.html

Edited May 29, 2013 by Dave Evans

[jimfoxy]

Here are the definitive scans from the slides that Adrian Slack (the man who named these clones) took of his plants and which were publicised in his book, 'Insect-eating Plants and How to Grow Them':

http://jimfoxy.co.uk/sethos_weser.html

[kisscool_38]

Hello Jim,

I was about to post your link earlier, however, I can't see the larger version of your images.

[Dave Evans]

It is a shame Adrian took a photo of a weird flower for the standard... But still the darker color near the center and increased contrast is still clear.

[jimfoxy]

Hello Jim,

I was about to post your link earlier, however, I can't see the larger version of your images.

Thanks - what happens when you click on the thumbnails?

[jimfoxy]

It is a shame Adrian took a photo of a weird flower for the standard... But still the darker color near the center and increased contrast is still clear.

The original slides show four flowers for Weser but not all are clear. Unfortunately, I don't have permission to make a public the high res photo. Can you describe what you would say was weird about it?

[Rodrigo]

When searching the web I found these photos of P. 'Sethos' and P. 'Weser':

The above is a flower of P. 'Sethos' and just below that of P. 'Weser'.

Best regards,

Rodrigo

Source:

http://www.sarraceni...leria/g145.html

[jimfoxy]

Rodrigo, the 'Weser' looks bang on but I have doubt about that 'Sethos'. Just checked your source; that 'Sethos' is listed as a "P. 'Sethos' selfing flower". So perhaps a self pollinated 'Sethos' seedling and not the true 'Sethos'? It does not look like 'Sethos'.

[Rodrigo]

Jim, here are some questions based on what you just answer:

1) From what I understand the plan of the second photo would be an F1 hybrid of P. 'Sethos'?

2) The hybrid arising from self-pollination of P. 'Sethos' should be named P. x 'Sethos' or P. ehlersiae x moranensis?

Best regards,

Rodrigo

[jimfoxy]

1) I am no botanist/taxonomist but my understanding is that F1 hybrids must be a result of genetically different parents. So you could call P. x 'Sethos' an F1 hybrid. A self pollinated P. x 'Sethos' produces seed that you could call an F2 hybrid but that in itself means nothing specific as it could refer to a hybrid between P. x 'Sethos' and something else (I think). Nobody in the CP world uses the terms F1 and F2 as there is little or no benefit.

The "x" coming after a genus initial e.g. "P. x" just indicates that the plant is a hybrid (cross). To remove doubt, a selfed P. x 'Sethos' could be written as P. (x 'Sethos') x P. (x 'Sethos'). One can see how labelling can quickly go wrong when all you have is a little plant label to write on. This is why most growers prefer a numbering system and keep all the long naming on a computer spreadsheet, along with where the plant was sourced, and I would always recommend this. Then you just need something to make your numbering system reasonably unique e.g. Mike King uses the prefix MK. Hopefully, any younger (sorry Mike) serious CP grower with the initials MK would then choose a different prefix. Personally, I use JP for Pinguicula and JS for Sarracenia on my plant labels.

Note that P. 'Sethos' is the same as P. x 'Sethos'. Personally I put a 'x' in whenever there is a hybrid for clarity, even if it is a named cultivar. However, I have a feeling this may be wrong, and I will probably be pulled up on it. But I cannot see the harm in adding a "x" with a cultivar name when it is a hybrid.

Luckily there are no intergeneric hybrids in the CP world.

2) See (1). P. (x 'Sethos') x (x 'Sethos') or less specifically P. (ehlersiae x moranensis) x (ehlersiae x moranensis).

It gets messy quickly. With things like Sarracenia that hybridize ad infinitum who is to say what a species is and what is a hybrid that has been back crossed with the same parent 'species' over many generations? We like to put things neatly into boxes with names because we like order but the natural world is rarely so neat.

I believe the reason Sethos and Weser are so frequently mislabelled and misidentified in Europe is because certain Dutch wholesale nurseries couldn't be bothered to correctly label plants. Same happened with Tina=Hans. Nearly every CP grower at some point buys a plant from a garden centre, despite their best intentions (me included)!

Edited June 16, 2013 by jimfoxy