Fernando Rivadavia Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Hello to all who are (or will be) attempting to germinate D.meristocaulis!! I'd like to ask for all your help in a very important scientific study of this species. In 1997 Conran et al published a cool paper entitled "Droseraceae germination patterns and their taxonomic significance". They showed that there is a lot of taxonomic information that can be obtained by observing the germination of Drosera seeds. Therefore, it would be extremely interesting to register the initial stages of D.meristocaulis germination. These are the characteristics to observe: 1.) Do cotyledons emerge from the seed testa? There are 3 types: -- Phanerocotylar - cotyledons emerge fully from the seed (known from D.burmannii, D.binata, D.hamiltonii, D.indica, most New World, African, & north temperate Drosera spp.) -- Hemicryptocotylar - cotyledons partially emerge from the seed and photosynthetic (only known from D.adelae among Drosera) -- Cryptocotylar - cotyledons remain largely enclosed withing seed (known from tuberous & pygmy Drosera, the petiolaris-complex, D.glanduligera, and I suspect D.meristocaulis too) 2.) Do the cotyledons have sessile glands? Numerous taxa from subgen Drosera are known to have them, but I'd guess D.meristocaulis doesn't. 3.) Are the first leaves reduced, non-carnivorous and generally prophyllar? This characteristic is known from erect tuberous species of sect.Ergaleium and is probably not the case of D.meristocaulis. 4.) Are all the leaves alternate or is the first pair (or initial pairs) opposite and the rest alternate? It is not clear in the paper which species have this character. On table 1 only one species from section Arachnopus (as well as Drosophyllum) is said to have opposite first leaves, but below this table on page 215 it is written: "First leaves were alternative in all taxa except Drosophyllum, and non-carnivorous first leaves confined to Aldrovanda and a few taxa within sect.Ergaleium." 5.) What was the minimum number of days to first germination? The longest times to germination were registered for tuberous & pygmy species and those of section Ptycnostygma (cistiflora, pauciflora, etc.), with mean values of 90-174 days (probably reflecting the summer dormancy habits of these taxa).Most of the remaining taxa varied from 10-40 days, which seems to be the case for D.meristocaulis. But please register, if possible, the number of days to first germination for D.meristocaulis and we'll average them out afterwards. Thanks to all!! Fernando Rivadavia P.S. If any of you have doubts in relation to complicated terms I used or anything else written above, please don't be shy to ask!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Rivadavia Posted January 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Great news!!! Other than Ivan Snyder, another friend has reported success germinating D.meristocaulis in vitro! "I already had and am having plenty of germination of D.meristocaulis. Mine have started by growing a fine deep red , tap root.approximatly 1 week ago." Yep, sounds like a true pygmy Drosera! ;) Good luck to all, Fernando Rivadavia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langy Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Hi, Mine were sown back on the 13/1/05, so far no germination signs. I am keeping records of potting media, humidity, temp, fungucides used etc. I will share all relivant info when I have enough to report. :wavey: Langy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Allan Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Fernando, Great to see that some seeds have germinated in cultivation. Langy, good luck! Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Rivadavia Posted February 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Hello to all again! Another case of D.meristocaulis seed germination, now the third!! See Andreas Fleischmann's mail to the CP listserv: "I can confirm Ivan's notice that the germination pattern of D.meristocaulis is phanerocotylar! Moreover, Ivan, you are right that not all pygmies seem to hide their cotyledons in the testa. I noticed this way of germination in D.occidentalis, D.microscapa and relatives, but the D.pulchella I did germinate from seed once had clearly visible, non-carnivorous cotyledons (i.e. phanerocotylar germination!)." As for Darren (the 2nd guy to germinate them), he wrote: "Seed was initiated on 28-12-04 invitro. So far only about 20% germination. one plant is already producing its 2nd-3rd true leaf now. seedlings are very small and dont look like they have any cotyledons, and all parts are very red." So we seem to have a disagreement on whether D.meristocaulis is crypto or phanerocotylar... Keep the news coming guys! Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belinda Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Hi It Seems as if my Meristocaulis seeds have also germinated . I used a double greenhouse type of setup and with Sydney Australia's wild recent weather may have triggered germination ( red hot then cold etc). The seeds were sown on the 17/1/05 and definite germination i noticed today 4/2/05. They appear to be Phanerocotylar in my opinion . Fingers crossed they continue to develop . regards Belinda. My seeds where sown on a potting medium of 1 part coarsesand , 2 parts spaghnam peat and 1 part coarse perlite . The pot was then placed in a water tray abt 1inch deep on second shelf of small portable green house with a second water tray directly beneath on bottom shelf .i also used the top of a 1.5lt coke bottle on pot itself to create extra humidity.The green house gets abt 70% indirect sun all day . I think the rapid wheather changes in Sydney recently could have been the key to germination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Rivadavia Posted February 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Congratulations Belinda!!! You're the 4th person!!! And fast too, only 18 days!! So far Australia leads the race! Australia 2, rest of the world 2!! :):) Sounds like you may have hit on an interesting tip for quick germination too... Best of luck, Fernando Rivadavia P.S. Hope to be able to add more people to this list when I return from the Carnaval holliday next Thursday! ;) I might even see a few CPs at the beach... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundewmatt Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Hi all, I'm happy to say that more of my D.meristocaulis seeds are sprouting - it looks like I've got a good crop. I'm VERY happy about this! The roraimae and G.repens seed I offered have germinated as well. The only one I haven't germinated yet is hirticalyx, but I'm patiently waiting. If anyone still wants seed, email your requests as I hope to divide the rest up shortly. Thanks, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Spence Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Just noticed seed of the D. hirticalyx seed germinating but no signs of the D. meristocaulis yet which was sown earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Spence Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Just checked the pots again and have noticed germination of D. meristocaulis and D. roraimae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundewmatt Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Hi Sean, What temperature / lighting / wetness for the hirticalyx seed? I'm wondering if it needs warmer temps to germinate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binataboy Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Congrats Sean :) I will have to drop around and check tham out!! Oh, and where are the photos?!!! And are you all set for the Falls Creek trek? George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Spence Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Hi Sean,What temperature / lighting / wetness for the hirticalyx seed? I'm wondering if it needs warmer temps to germinate. The pots are placed in my indoor fluoro lighted tank and sit in around 1-1.5 inches of water (they are 3 inch tall pots). It's a 4 foot tank with 4 lights about 10 inches above the pots on a 14 hour photoperiod. Not sure about temps as I don't have a thermometer in there but I would guess the min. night temps are around 15 deg C and max. day temps around 35 deg C. A bit warm for my liking at this time of year. The D. meristocaulis seed only germinated after placing it into a sealed plastic container. Sorry George, too small for photos. My camera doesn't get in quite that close unfortunately. I'll post some nice shots in a few months when the plants are mature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Rivadavia Posted February 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Hello to all! Back from carnaval on the beach and happy to see we have 3 more lucky CPers to add to the list!!! Congrats to Sean from Australia, Matt from New York, and "CP2K" from California (ah how I wish people used their real names on these forums!! :):) ). If possible, Sean & Matt, please observe if the cotyledons are coming out of the seed coat or not! "CP2K" reports D.meristocaulis as being phanerocotylar (cotyledons emerging from the seed coat), while most people have so far reported cryptocotylar (cotyledons remaining inside the seed coat). At least one person has confirmed that the phanerocotylar seedlings observed are apparently stray seed contaminating the D.meristocaulis pot. So the tendency so far seem to be cryptocotylar.... Sean reports germination for D.roraimae and D.hirticalyx too (hopefully for the spectacular Marahuaka forms!). Congrats to all!! Fernando Rivadavia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fleischmann Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Hi Fernando! I got fast germination (within 2 weeks only) in all of your D.roraimae yet, except those of Cerro Jaua. The D.hirticalyx from Cerro Marahuaca did germinate quite fast, too (about 3 weeks), no germination visible in D.hirticalyx from Neblina so far. D. meristocaulis did take about 3 weeks to germinate under my greenhouse conditions, too. Could you tell us why the D.roraimae and D.hirticalyx from Marahuaca are so spectacular? I did notice that D.roraimae is a very variable plant, not only differing much between highland and lowland locations, but even showing slight differences within the tepui populations. But that's almost to be expected from a plant with such a wide range (at least inside the Guayanan highlands). All the best, Andreas PS: Did the hot Brazilian Carnaval take all your attention, or did you even find some Drosera (like D.brevifolia) on the beach? ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundewmatt Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Hi Fernando, Andreas, etc... The plants from Marahuaca were really big in comparison to the others. Interestingly, the seedlings of the Mara roraimae are smaller than some if not all of the other forms. I'd take a closer look but I'm burned out on CP right now - I got a lot of tissue cultured Heliamphoras from a friend and have been really busy planting them. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Rivadavia Posted February 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Hi guys, Matt: TC helis?? TRAITOR!!! :):) Andreas: The D.roraimae on Marahuaka had huge rosettes and the flowers were PINK!! As for D.hirticalyx, they were extremely robust and forming columns of dead leaves up to around 15cm high! As for Carnaval on the beach, it gets quite crazy here in Brazil during this holliday (even more so than usual!), but I somehow managed to keep my head clear and explored some "restinga" habitats between sand dunes near the beach. I found D.capillaris, but strangely not D.brevifolia. Also saw U.erectiflora, U.tricolor, and U.subulata. Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobZ Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Fernando, I hope you took photos of U. erectiflora. The three photos on your Web site are the only photos that I have been able to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fleischmann Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Hi Fernando! I did notice some pinkish-white flowered D. roraimae on Kukenan and Roraima, too. But none of them was really pink, thus I hope I'll be able to grow your seedlings to maturity and get them flowering! BTW, the biggest D. hirticalyx I did see had a stem of old leaves about 5 cm in height, but I noticed only very few individuals on Kukenan forming a stem at all. But that's what you already told us in one of your former travel reports ;-). I'm a little jealous of you living in Brazil. Not only that you have a lot more species of Drosera growing there, you are even able to have Carnaval on the beach! Here in Germany Carnaval time is is freezing cold, thus no fun at all! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Rivadavia Posted February 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Hello Andreas, I had heard of pink-flowered D.roraimae before and have even seen pics of white flowers with a red patch at the base of the petals. As for D.hirticalyx, not only were the leaf columns higher on Marahuaka, but the leaves & scapes more robust too. Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundewmatt Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Hey everyone, I'm happy to report that I got terrific germination of D.meristocaulis. 2 months plus for good germination... Hopefully they'll grow well now! Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langy Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Hi, all Im happy to report that I have signs of germination from my Drosera roraimae Cerro Aracamuni, and D. roraimae Cerro Aduna. However still no signs from my Drosera meristocaulis Cerro Neblina, or D. hirticalyx Cerro Neblina. :wavey: Langy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Rivadavia Posted March 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Great news, congrats Langy!! Hope your D.meristocaulis comes up soon. Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia P.S. That's Cerro Adaua, not Aduna. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundewmatt Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Don't blame me for that misspelling. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langy Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 I didnt say a word... :wavey: Langy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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