Brexit or stay in, consequences for our plants

[manders]

It's not a surprise at all.  The surprise howver is some of the really dumb reasons many people are putting forward for leaving.  Also whats becoming clear is that a large number of people put in a 'protest' vote not really expecting to win.  Now they have won, sizeable numbers may be changing their minds.  Too late however.

 

Do Turkeys vote for xmas?  Apparently yes.

[FredG]

Oh please stop being so negative. You can't predict what will happen, no-one can, as the situation has not been encountered before, there is no model.

 

It really looks like you swallowed Cameron's propaganda hook line and sinker. 

 

It doesn't seem that long ago that Cameron said if he didn't get what he wanted from the EU he would lead us out. Well where were all the predictions of doom then?

[manders]

Sorry Fred but i'm not one of those who listened to politicians on either side.  I read the independent information which was made available by experts in their field.

 

I take it you listened to Farage.

[FredG]

You don't know what I voted, I haven't said, or did you get independent information on that too?

 

You keep saying experts in their field.

 

As Norman Tebbit said on Friday morning. If these "experts" knew as much as they pretend, they'd be a lot richer than they are.

 

 

Anyway, that's enough, you are obviously enjoying wallowing in the pessimistic pool far too much,so I'll leave to to it

[manders]

And actually you dont know which way I voted.

 

Geoge Soros is pretty rich, for one, but you keep listening to Tebbit if you prefer.

 

Not wallowing old boy, actually angry that some old farts have made a choice that probably wont affect them, but will affect the next generation.

[FredG]

Rofl, there goes the pessimism again

[manders]

Realism Fred.

[FredG]

[manders]

Yep, that's how we ended up in this mess.

[gricey]

get our country back? sovereignty? what does that mean?

Are we now really going to reopen the steel mills, coal pits, car plants, re nationalise rail, buses etc....
or has the decision just been made to move Nissan, Mini(BMW), Vauxhall(Opel), LandRover, Airbus to back within the EU Borders?

Shared parental leave - bet that's gone // Working Time Directive - bet that's gone // Habitats Directive - bet that's gone

the brexiteers won and not once, not once, was a case put forward for 'Should we win the plan is ......'
now questions are being asked and there is not a single answer. Just the Milky Bar kid on Glue saying 'uh, am, erm, crickey, I have to go and play cricket'

£350 million better spent on NHS . . erm didn't say that. Mr Farage was not the 'official' Out Member so is/was free to stir as much as he liked. People bought it.
Immigration, immigration, immigration . .. . .seemed to be the only thing that this was ever really about. Turkey is a real non event here.
It has been stated at all levels that as a country it meets none, absolutely none, of the criteria to be eligible to join. Never will.
Yet that has been played as the second major card. It wont happen. There will not be millions of Turks lining up at heathrow looking to live here.

European 'Red Tape' another main stay of this out campaign. Well, in truth this never existed.
 Red Tape is a burden on Business and blah blah etc..... This is not red tape my friends but greed.
We have many red tapes (sorry regulations) imposed from (agreed at council) Europe that help make our seas cleaner, beaches free from turds, air clean to breathe, bogs, forests
and rivers not concreted over (without a very very good reason and public enquiry)
These rules will still be in place on the continent so withdrawing from this only removes us from the discussion. Not the implementation.
Brexiteers insist that we will still have access to this market. Maybe, a negotiation is needed that will be hard to form consensus.
The rules (red tape) will still apply so why is it so bad now but ok then?
We wont have free movement of goods, so there is the response to the plants question. CITES etc will be required. If this was not to be an issue then a condition to
free trade is.......... free movement. just gets more and more rediculous....

If that little ramble is seen as going off topic and keep it to the plants well, sorry. It is a little relevant to an old time politics and language student.
If I was looking to start that course anytime soon it would be either 1) too expensive 2) not available. I did indeed enjoy the privilege of an ERASMUS grant that allowed me
to go live and study in foreign land and I am much better for it.
EU will not allow foreign (works both ways folks) material in without full and proper regulation, just as it does not i suppose. We are an island and have a natural barrier
to invasive, non native species so will have to implement sever controls on this. I take it that the majority of carnivorous plants are non native...
So, sell to continent = put up with red tape (that ironically isnt in place now as we are a member)
buy from continent = no idea as the brexiteers have no plans/thoughts for this, but would imagine some fairly strict controls as we dont want them foreign plants coming
over here eating all our lovely British Insects now do we

[Deltatango301]

Well we have had our Referendum and you all know the result the people have spoken.

Now we all need to nuckle under and sort out our exit from the EU after we have had

The next election which looks likely to be in the next 8 months. If it goes tits up then their

Will be another election and so on, I think in the next 4 years the EU will be getting smaller

Not bigger. To keep going they will need more billions from Germany and France as the

Rest of the them are basket cases no money that's why they are drawing more than

They put in.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Deltatango301

[Phil Green]

So much for that EMERGENCY BUDGET which was gonna be needed and cost us all loads of money.

 

Osborne is NOW saying the British economy is strong and BACK TRACKING on that budget.

Just one of LIES fed to us by the remain camp, now exposed!

 

People seem not to have recognised that this was a referendum, NOT an election.

Those in the 'out camp' were not being elected to run this country. They could only say things that 'COULD' be done after we leave. It is still down to the Government of the day to decide what actually does happen.

 

If the remain camp want to remain bitter and ruin this Country, just to say "I told you so", then things probably will go badly.

But if every one now buries their differences, swallow their pride and work together for the best interests of THE COUNTRY, then there is no reason why things should work out well.

 

Complaining that things didn't go 'your way' helps no one.

Lets face it, more people voted to leave, than have voted in a Government, for a very long time. The win was over 50% (obviously it had to be), but it's rare in an election for the winner to get over 50% of the vote and a higher turn out than in an election! Normally more people didn't vote the government in, than did.

So this is actually one of the most democratic things to happen for ages!

Edited June 27, 2016 by Phil Green

[FredG]

Democracy is great, unless you're a bad loser.

[Yossu]

Democracy is great, unless you're a bad loser.

It was worth reading all the arguments for that one line alone!

[manders]

So much for that EMERGENCY BUDGET which was gonna be needed and cost us all loads of money.

 

Osborne is NOW saying the British economy is strong and BACK TRACKING on that budget.

Just one of LIES fed to us by the remain camp, now exposed!

 

People seem not to have recognised that this was a referendum, NOT an election.

Those in the 'out camp' were not being elected to run this country. They could only say things that 'COULD' be done after we leave. It is still down to the Government of the day to decide what actually does happen.

 

If the remain camp want to remain bitter and ruin this Country, just to say "I told you so", then things probably will go badly.

But if every one now buries their differences, swallow their pride and work together for the best interests of THE COUNTRY, then there is no reason why things should work out well.

 

Complaining that things didn't go 'your way' helps no one.

Lets face it, more people voted to leave, than have voted in a Government, for a very long time. The win was over 50% (obviously it had to be), but it's rare in an election for the winner to get over 50% of the vote and a higher turn out than in an election! Normally more people didn't vote the government in, than did.

So this is actually one of the most democratic things to happen for ages!

Come off it Phil, all the politicians were lying in equal amounts, Boris, amongst others, is now backtracking on the immigration issue. 

 

And lets not get too carried away with the lack of an emergency budget, Osborne is waiting to see what happens with a new prime minister and maybe a new chancellor, he's no fool, if he doesnt need to stick his own neck out he wont.

 

Regardless of all politicians lies, we are allready seeing the negative impacts on the economy.

[Deltatango301]

Check this out 360 billon

http://demonocracy.info/infographics/eu/debt_greek/debt_greek.html

[manders]

Is there a point?

[Deltatango301]

Is there a point?

The point is who's next cap in hand Spain Portugal Italy Ireland

[manders]

The point is who's next cap in hand Spain Portugal Italy Ireland

The money didnt come from you or me so why does it bother you? We are isolated from the Euro.

[Alexis]

Now my mum is going to have trouble selling her house, which I need her to sell to boost my own deposit for my own house (currently accruing interest at a pathetic 1.2%), which means my plants are still 25 miles away from me at hers and I'm stuck in rented for god knows how much longer, spending what amounts to two mortgages a month.

Thats's Brexit for you. Cheers Dave.

[Deltatango301]

The money didnt come from you or me so why does it bother you? We are isolated from the Euro.

Because who wants to be in a club that's going broke

[manders]

The EU has allmost the same GDP as the USA, hardly going broke.  As an aside, actualy with the current value of the Pound, our GDP has dropped below that of France on a $ basis, so we may no longer be the worlds 5th biggest economy.  Only Phil so far has had a semi-sensible reason for leaving.

[manders]

Seems Like Farage, Johnson and co played a lot of people like a cheap fiddle, I guess thats politics. Leaving may or may not turn out to be the right thing to do, but how we got there has been a real eye-opener.

[Deltatango301]

I give up :)

Edited June 28, 2016 by Deltatango301

[North West Neps]

Seeing as we didn't really find out what would be the consequences to our plants, can i request this thread now be closed before anyone falls out.

We're here for the fascinating world of carnivorous plants, not politics.

Maybe a new thread about the importing and exporting of plants can be started in the future when we have a better idea of how the laws may change.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Welshy