Brexit or stay in, consequences for our plants


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To be absolutely clear, as I've never had to read too carefully into all this before, am I right in saying that if we leave the EU and we wish to receive plants from Europe:

- all Sarracenia, Dionaea, and Nepenthes will require CITES documents and phytosanitary documents.

- all other live plants - Drosera, Utricularia, Pinguicula etc. will require phytosanitary documents.

 

?

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O.k Welshy,

 

Back on topic,      Why not grow our own plants?    and supply our market?

 

ada

I'm going to take you up on that ada :wink:

Hopefully i'll be the biggest source of nepenthes species in the UK. 

I'll get back to you in about 10 years and let you know how i'm getting on  :laugh1:

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Looking like Leave is winning so at the end of the day we should all buy British

Being new here I have bought from abroad but i am afraid buying bear root

Really stress the plants I have had about 6 plants die who would be

Responsible for replacing ?

In future I will only buy potted and pay extra for postage if necessary

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good luck with that welshy,i remember when Mike King only had a 12foot greenhouse on church land.Now with the internet you should have it covered in 5 years i reckon.just sorry i can't help you out in the nep dept.

 

Deltango,buying bare rooted is no problem.I have had plants from friends in europe with no problems at all,i can't ever remember losing a single one sent to me.buying at the right time is the key. dormant = no problems.

most problems i think occur when plants are in full growth,then if sent bare rooted i would expect the pitchers/leaves to die back or show signs of stress but they should recover if the roots are kept damp.

How ever if sent in hot weather they could be cooked in the parcel,then you don't stand much chance.

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There will always be a few individuals with the patience to grow from seed,just takes more time in the u.k

 

But now with 24 hour light and maxsea i'm sure we'll cope.

Thats ok for sarras and other weedy plants, not so good for nepenthes.
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CITES permits cost £74 per genus and phyto has gone up from £25 ish to around £50. This will kill off trade and my largest export market is the EU. I am self-employed selling plants and the exchequer will lose a lot of tax from me. This is how one goes into a recession. If we do leave, I will be reminding everyone when things go wrong in the economy that they got what wished for when they start complaining.

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Surely just about everything is already being grown in this country.

There can't be much (if anything) that isn't.

 

So even if it becomes near impossible to get plants from abroad, what's the problem?

 

You could even say, that if the flood of cheap TC plants from Europe stops, that those nurseries in this country might actually finally be able to make a decent living and cover their costs.

Lets face it, prices for most plants are the same or less, than they were in the early 1980's. That applies particularly to CP's, but also for many other plants.

 

If people are forced to BUY BRITISH, that means the money stays in this country. So potentially more people could be employed or even higher wages, so offsetting any increased costs.

Lets face it, for decades we've had cheap imports driving down costs (profits) and so wages - for those that haven't been driven out of business or lost their jobs through cost cutting to try and compete with cheap imports.

 

People seem to be conned into believing cheap imports are good for those on low incomes.

But there are hidden costs in the long run, which actually lead to low incomes and unemployment.

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well said Phil.

Same here Mike,i will remind everyone of how good it is ,if we leave.

 

There are always other jobs to do and other avenues to take,when one door closes another one opens they say,diversify is another word we hear too!    lots of people who have been made redundant already have found this out.

 

All most people want is to make our own Laws and control our borders,if the EU let us do this i don't think there would be as much of a problem.

why change any import/export rules just because we leave? they work o.k now,so why not in the future? it would harm everyones economy.

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More than half of immigrants come from outside the EU. That may well increase if we leave, so what is the difference?

Import / export rules will automatically change if we leave, because thats what leaving means.

What laws have been passed which affect normal peoples lives in a bad way? And at what point did i get a say in what uk laws are passed? When i voted for a losing party at an election? Sovereignty, like freedom, is an illusion. Sounds good in speech but means little in reality.

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More than half of immigrants come from outside the EU. That may well increase if we leave, so what is the difference?

 

 

The difference is that this country will get a choice in who those immigrants are. We can make sure that only those that will benefit us due to skills shortages come in. Not just anyone looking to improve their own life, but a drain on our resources. We will also be able to stop anyone with a criminal conviction coming in. At the moment any European criminal is free to come here, because we have no rights to check on them! We are a small island, with limited resources (including land) - we can't afford to house and fund the whole of Europe and everyone else who manages to smuggle themselves into Europe.

Average uk income has gone from less than half of the US to about 4/5 of the US. No improvement?

That may well be true. But so what? that has nothing to do with Europe.

 

This country joined a Common Market to make trade across Europe easier (A good idea). But over time the agenda has changed and what we are now in, is nothing like what we joined.

 

I used to play for a pub crib team, over time the team members changed and it was no longer the fun team I joined - I LEFT.

Over the last few years, the company I worked for started to change the priorities of my job and it became less and less the wildlife managing and protecting job which I had started. So after 20 years in the job - I LEFT.

 

This EEC is nothing like the organisation we originally joined - so it's about time we left.

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spot on Phil,we have a choice to show the elected know alls what we really think.  We at last have a choice and i'm with you,its time we left,its only going to get worse if we stay.

 

We wont be frightened by the crap they are trying to make us believe,we will just get on with it like we always have and maybe have to do without a few plants from europe.

 

I can live with that.

 

ada

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Some interesting reading I found on the internet, not my research but plenty of stuff most of us will recognise but may have forgotten about.

 

 

INTERESTING READING
OK,.. here's a short list of financial and industrial FUBARs from the EU then,..
Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Absorb this and then tell me that it's a good idea to stay a part of the EU !!!!

PLEASE VOTE LEAVE.

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As an ex childhood rail enthusiast (not your tabloid labelled 'trainspotter') i wonder if anyone else remembers the massive sprawling sites of Swindon Works, BREL Doncaster, and Crewe, to name some of the biggest employers back in the day. What are they now ? Housing estates and empty office spaces.

The past few years, all our heavy freight locos are now built in Canada and brought over by boat. The US also own all our freight operations (aka EWS... English, Welsh, and Scottish) and the majority of our passenger trains are built in Sweden and shipped in. At what cost ? Cheaper than building them in the UK and employing hundreds of thousands of people, obviously.

Which only goes to prove that profits are more important than people, and if that's all you care about, then i'm pretty disgusted actually.

British engineering is now virtually non existant, and to add insult to injury, the "yanks" already run practically most of the UK and they ain't even in the bloody Europe.

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Speaking as an undecided, I still have to hear a good reason for leaving.

Companies are still free to move to the EU if we leave, probably more likely to do so in fact.

What will be the positive benefit of leaving?

Please no more straw man arguments abut the decline of British industry.

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Let me remind you about Turkey by the next 2 years they will have 3 million displaced people

They will want to send them to Europe and make agreement with the EU to let so many

Turks as well through to Europe on temp visa's. Mark my words

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Phil, you have no way of knowing whether the EU has helped our economy or not, and neither do I. But it's doubtful we would be doing as well as we are without it.

As to choosing which immigrants can come, where do you think a great proportion of our engineers, doctors, dentists and other professionals come from now?

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t

Phil, you have no way of knowing whether the EU has helped our economy or not, and neither do I. But it's doubtful we would be doing as well as we are without it.

As to choosing which immigrants can come, where do you think a great proportion of our engineers, doctors, dentists and other professionals come from now?

if we adopt Australia type points system professional people would still be allowed in if they are of benefit to the UK

Leave

jim

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