manders Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 On the plus side, all the unemployed people that will result from this disaster can re-train as part time fruit pickers and hotel cleaners, thus negating the need for immigrants at all. Less people will be able to afford to travel abroad, or indeed run a car, or buy food, so that will help the environment as well. As standards of living drop and the NHS is reduced or is finally privatised out of neccesity, people will generally stop living as long and that will solve the population increase as well, in fact we can then, once Scotland and Northern Ireland have left the UK we can be written out of history complelety as a once great nation now reduced to an insignifcant island off the coast of the United States of Europe. Extereme? Probably, but make no mistake, we have taken steps in that direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantrid Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 If the isolationists really do limit immigration we have serious problems. In reality, i doubt anybody will actually limit immigration and it will be a requirement of any EU deal anyway. All weve done is vote away any advantages we had. Yeah, great result. you lost. get over it :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantrid Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 We will have to let them in, what part of 'deal with the EU' is missing from this conversation. At some point the realisation will dawn that we have gained nothing and lost a lot. Love to see your sources for this information. One of the advantages of leaving the eu is that we dont have let anyone in that the uk doesnt need its as simple as that. We buy more from the eu than we sell to them. They will be happy and grateful to deal with us on our terms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantrid Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 So if we have no agreement with the EU, how are you going to check who is a criminal or not? We wont automaticaly have access to foreign police records at the point of entry. Are you proposing that Visas will be needed to/from the EU and full background checks? what is your source of information that says the eu will stop sharing information on criminals and vise versa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 what is your source of information that says the eu will stop sharing information on criminals and vise versa Because we dont automatically share that information now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Love to see your sources for this information. One of the advantages of leaving the eu is that we dont have let anyone in that the uk doesnt need its as simple as that. We buy more from the eu than we sell to them. They will be happy and grateful to deal with us on our terms A triumph of optimism over political reality. No country with free access to EU market has avoided having to allow free movement of people, its a fundamental principle of the EU and they will not make an exception for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 you lost. get over it :) Nope, we have all lost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltatango301 Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) Don't worry we will be alright were British Rule Britannia God save the Queen :) Edited June 25, 2016 by Deltatango301 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantrid Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 A triumph of optimism over political reality. No country with free access to EU market has avoided having to allow free movement of people, its a fundamental principle of the EU and they will not make an exception for us. what do you actually mean by free access to the eu market. Most countries in the world trade with the eu. they dont have to let eu citizens enter their countries to live and work and these countries that trade with the eu dont pay any kind of a fee for the privilage of doing business with it. we will simply become one of those other dozens of countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantrid Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Don't worry we will be alright were British Rule Britannia God save the Queen :) exactly. we managed fine before the eu and we will manage fine now. problem is many people here are too young to remember this so are filled with fear as theyve never known a uk outside of the eu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 what do you actually mean by free access to the eu market. Most countries in the world trade with the eu. they dont have to let eu citizens enter their countries to live and work and these countries that trade with the eu dont pay any kind of a fee for the privilage of doing business with it. we will simply become one of those other dozens of countries. Free access means no restrictions to trade, countries without free access, all have some kind of restriction to trade. Import tariffs being one of them. When many foriegn companies invested in the UK, it was on the bases of free access to the EU, if after the next two years they have to pay tariifs to export to the EU, they may well decide to move to a country that does have free access. Same with the banks in London. A lot now depends on what we can negotiate in the next two years. If we cant negotiate free access, many employers may simply choose the abandon the UK altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossu Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 That just shows how little you know me - so please watch the patronising. It wasn't meant to be patronising, it was an attempt to inject a little humour (and cynicism) into the discussion. Many apologies if it wasn't clear. It was definitely not my intention to offend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazgoodman Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) The main issues for me personally are that the leave campaign blatently lied about the issues of imigration and NHS funding. If you have a look at BBC news website it's easy enough to find news clips where Farage backtracks on the much banded about £350 Million a week promise to the NHS. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-result-nigel-farage-nhs-pledge-disowns-350-million-pounds-a7099906.html Also I work with young people, several of my students are apprentices. Some have been told that their jobs are at risk because thier company needs a base in the EU. It probably wont affect me that much, I have only 8 years till retirement, I voted remain for my children and all other young people in this country. Baz Edited June 26, 2016 by bazgoodman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Allan Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 what do you actually mean by free access to the eu market. Most countries in the world trade with the eu. they dont have to let eu citizens enter their countries to live and work and these countries that trade with the eu dont pay any kind of a fee for the privilage of doing business with it. we will simply become one of those other dozens of countries. Might it not have been prudent to have researched such matters before voting to plunge the country into economic crisis? Its what our grandfathers fought for Just the sort of ludicrous hyperbole that got us into this mess. To stay on topic, yes, of course it will be bad for our hobby. But that's the least of our problems now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltatango301 Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 When the dust settles all will be fine, we are not stupid we have good negotiation skills. I think a lot of the remain camp are being a bit melodramatic, we are not going to war. We are not losing our heads we will take it slowly over the next 2/3 years. And in the end we will all be better off for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) When the dust settles all will be fine, we are not stupid we have good negotiation skills. I think a lot of the remain camp are being a bit melodramatic, we are not going to war. We are not losing our heads we will take it slowly over the next 2/3 years. And in the end we will all be better off for it. Actually we have no one experieneced in negotiating trade agreements because we havent done one in over 40 years. Not ot mention that we will need to negotiate with over 80 countries, ie the trade agreements that we are currently part of through being in the EU, wil have to re-negotiated when we leave. These are highly complex legal matters that need expertise and a lot of time, to get a good outcome, its not like trying to get a few quid knocked off a second hand car. This will take decades. As pointed out by the Foreign Office cross party working group several months ago. Edited June 26, 2016 by manders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltatango301 Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Actually we have no one experieneced in negotiating trade agreements because we havent done one in over 40 years. Not ot mention that we will need to negotiate with over 80 countries, ie the trade agreements that we are currently part of through being in the EU, wil have to re-negotiated when we leave. These are highly complex legal matters that need expertise and a lot of time, to get a good outcome, its not like trying to get a few quid knocked off a second hand car. This will take decades. As pointed out by the Foreign Office cross party working group several months ago. You need to get a chill pill you are going over the top next you will tell us we should all commit harikari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 You need to get a chill pill you are going over the top next you will tell us we should all commit harikari. Reality is not over the top, its simply reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Negative speculation is not reality. If anyone disagrees with the result of a democratically held referendum then they are free to leave. That is at least one way we can reduce the net migration figures that many worry about 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Allan Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Negative speculation is not reality. I take it that you've not been following the news since the fateful result came in! The markets are in turmoil, the main political parties are in meltdown, there is clearly no coherent exit strategy, the UK is on the brink of breaking up, we are very likely to end up with an unelected prime minister (at least until such time as a general election takes place) and, furthermore, the result seems to have unleashed a spate of racist and/or xenophobic attacks on foreign EU nationals. Still, we have 'got Britain back' from the 'unelected officials'. The Brexit supporters must be so proud! If anyone disagrees with the result of a democratically held referendum then they are free to leave. That is at least one way we can reduce the net migration figures that many worry about Fortunately, the peculiarities of the UK's constitutional framework mean that, strictly speaking, the result is advisory only (a last-ditch safeguard against rank idiocy, perhaps). Thus, whilst, for political reasons, exit from the EU is overwhelmingly the most likely outcome, my view is that the remain camp should continue protesting until it is legally all over. This may at the very least convince our EU partners that there is a sufficient groundswell of sane and reasonable people to warrant dealing with us in a favourable manner (perhaps even Common Market membership). The attitude of giving up and walking away when everything is not as one wants is what got us into this fine mess in the first place. Incidentally, I have to question whether a process which involved a campaign dominated by fraudulent claims and insinuations intended to hoodwink the ignorant into voting to leave can really be called 'democratic'. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Negative speculation is not reality. If anyone disagrees with the result of a democratically held referendum then they are free to leave. That is at least one way we can reduce the net migration figures that many worry about Realistic advice based on the opinion of experts, taken from all political parties and overseen by the foreign office, is the best advice we have. Unless your a legal expert in international trade and wish to donate your services Fred. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossu Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Incidentally, I have to question whether a process which involved a campaign dominated by fraudulent claims and insinuations intended to hoodwink the ignorant into voting to leave can really be called 'democratic'. Was it any worse than a normal general election? Politicians lie. I'm not taking sides in this argument, I'm just wondering if people were any more duped in this case than normally. I didn't believe a word any of them said, but as you've probably guessed by now, I wouldn't trust a politician to sit the right way up on a bar stool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 These would be the same experts that have failed on oh so many occasions to predict things? And of course I'm going to believe the Politicians. I saw their lips move, that was a bad start.. No-one knows how everything will pan out, it's called negotiation. If you go into negotiations not expecting to gain anything you'll probably get the outcome you expect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 These would be the same experts that have failed on oh so many occasions to predict things? And of course I'm going to believe the Politicians. I saw their lips move, that was a bad start.. No-one knows how everything will pan out, it's called negotiation. If you go into negotiations not expecting to gain anything you'll probably get the outcome you expect. Fred, do you honestly expect to end up better than we are now in a negotiation with the EU? You think they will give us free access and let us control our borders at the same time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 We were asked if we wanted to remain or leave the EU. The vote was to leave the EU, We were never asked if we wanted to be in the EU, so why was it such a surprise we didn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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