manders Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 I'm sorry, but there is no CERTANTY that our economy will be adversely affected by leaving. No one can say what the future holds. Economic forecasts are notoriously inaccurate! No absolute certainty Phil, but an extremely high probability, of course it might recover in 10 or twenty years, but until we get trade agreements sorted it will seriously impact us. If we choose to leave for idealogical reasons, and theres nothing wrong with that, we have to accept it will impact the economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Ill give you one good reason for leaving which is the disastrous EU fisheries policy which currently has discards going to landfill at the expense of the fishermen. (Thanks hugh f-w, great result). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltatango301 Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 After the big debate tonight it looks like leave got the biggest cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltatango301 Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) Yes leave has won now the fun starts Edited June 24, 2016 by Deltatango301 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Anderson Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Here we go, couldn't think of a worse thing to happen. Mark 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Good luck, ladies and gentlemen... We are not part of the EU, and I can assure you this is NOT easy! It certainly has some advantages, but you'll love the dramatic increase in paperwork... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Anderson Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I can't help but feel, that this decision is down to latent racism. I'm not talking about any one on the forum, but talking to a lot of people that come to my mates snack bar, and it always comes down to immigrants, with the leave people. Mark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I can't help but feel, that this decision is down to latent racism. I'm not talking about any one on the forum, but talking to a lot of people that come to my mates snack bar, and it always comes down to immigrants, with the leave people. Mark and when we renegotiate with the EU, we will have to let the immigrants in anyway... The fun is over and now its time to pay the piper... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Green Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) I'm actually quite proud and a little surprised, that the majority of the UK population didn't cowtow to the threats and blackmail thrown against them, by the political and financial elite. For far too long the politics of fear have dominated in this Country. Hopefully politicians will take note that this tactic failed and change how they operate in future. We now have the ability to make our own laws and spend our money on our priorities. How that plays out is down to all of us. There is now an even greater incentive for people to vote, because we now can change those people in charge. We had no say (and neither did any other population in Europe) in those Eurocrats who have been serving their own interests for so long. The future is now what WE make it - for better or worse. Edited June 24, 2016 by Phil Green 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantrid Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) I can't help but feel, that this decision is down to latent racism. I'm not talking about any one on the forum, but talking to a lot of people that come to my mates snack bar, and it always comes down to immigrants, with the leave people. Mark not wanting immigrants coming here doesnt make you a racist. you are confused and deluded if you cant see the difference racism and common sense. What is the logic behind letting in an uncontrolled number of unskilled workers when there are already 2 million people here who can do those jobs. And before you say 'they dont want to do the work', yes there are a lazy percentage but not two million of them. Letting others in uncontrolled just increases an already over populated country and puts even more pressure on our services and resources. Now we are in an idea position to be able to let in people who we actually need such as doctors and nurses. Edited June 24, 2016 by mantrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossu Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Hopefully politicians will take note that this tactic failed and change how they operate in future.You expect politicians to notice what's going on around them and change their views? You silly twisted boy you!Politicians aren't concerned with trivial issues like reality, certainly not when it gets in the way of their personal agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Anderson Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) Mantrid, please read my post properly, I was talking about people I have talked to at my mates snack bar. And believe me when I say a lot of the people I talked to are racist and all they could talk about was the issue of immigration. And to be honest if you haven't noticed how extreme the anti immigration thing is getting with a cross section of the British public then what can I say, I've heard all this reteric long before when a few of my friends went from being skinheads who listened to and loved Black music and then got into that daft nf, bnp bull. They then thought it was a great idea to travel to bradford and go paki bashing, suffice to say I've never talked to them since there radicalisation. Of course I don't think everyone that is anti immigration is racist. Mark Edited June 24, 2016 by carni grower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 not wanting immigrants coming here doesnt make you a racist. you are confused and deluded if you cant see the difference racism and common sense. What is the logic behind letting in an uncontrolled number of unskilled workers when there are already 2 million people here who can do those jobs. And before you say 'they dont want to do the work', yes there are a lazy percentage but not two million of them. Letting others in uncontrolled just increases an already over populated country and puts even more pressure on our services and resources. Now we are in an idea position to be able to let in people who we actually need such as doctors and nurses. The uk is virtually at full employement, with 1.7 million jobseekers, so where are these 2 million additional unemployed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantrid Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 And believe me when I say a lot of the people I talked to are racist and all they could talk about was the issue of immigration. Talking about issue of immigration isnt racist. its a genuine concern that has been clearly shown with this referendum result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantrid Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 The uk is virtually at full employement, with 1.7 million jobseekers, so where are these 2 million additional unemployed? 1.7 or 2 im not going to quibble over 0.3. plus there are people not in employment who are not job seekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Anderson Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 And believe me when I say a lot of the people I talked to are racist and all they could talk about was the issue of immigration. Talking about issue of immigration isnt racist. its a genuine concern that has been clearly shown with this referendum resultI didn't say that talking about immigration is racist, but like I said the people I talked to that were banging on about immigration are racist, believe me, they're not shy about the terms they use for certain minorities. But I highlight, this is people I talked to at my mates snack bar.And you can't deny that a lot of racist people in the uk might have voted out for the simple reason that they don't like immigrants coming to the uk and nothing to do with jobs or anything else. When the immigration card is played it's easy to see that it's a draw to racists. But of course all people concerned about immigration are not racist because of there concern, wether I agree with the concern or not. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 1.7 or 2 im not going to quibble over 0.3. plus there are people not in employment who are not job seekers No the point is that you can not employee another 2 (or 1.7) million brits, because unemployment never falls less than about 5%, thats natural 'churn'. It doesnt matter how many jobs are available, they'll mostly just go unfilled. Besides which most brits dont want actually want those jobs anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxman Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 My problem with immigration (from wherever it comes) is with population increase. If you saw the recent immigration and natural population growth figures you can see that the rate is unsustainable. The figures equate to the population of the UK doubling in 80 or so years, then doubling again over the same period. So in the lifetime of some babies today the popluation here will reach 130 million. We're losing much of our countryside now for building houses, what will it be like with twice as many people? Having said all this, no growth rate is sustainable and we should eventually try to reduce the indigenous population and then stabilise it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Where are you going to get the working age people to cover the cost of the aging population when 'indigenous' people are only having 1.6 babies per couple ? 330,000 net migration a year covers it quite well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I think anyone who voted on the basis of immigration will be sorely dissapointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Where are you going to get the working age people to cover the cost of the aging population when 'indigenous' people are only having 1.6 babies per couple ? 330,000 net migration a year covers it quite well. If the isolationists really do limit immigration we have serious problems. In reality, i doubt anybody will actually limit immigration and it will be a requirement of any EU deal anyway. All weve done is vote away any advantages we had. Yeah, great result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Green Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 You expect politicians to notice what's going on around them and change their views? You silly twisted boy you! Politicians aren't concerned with trivial issues like reality, certainly not when it gets in the way of their personal agenda. That just shows how little you know me - so please watch the patronising. Politicians are elected by the people. You get what you vote for. Where are you going to get the working age people to cover the cost of the aging population when 'indigenous' people are only having 1.6 babies per couple ? Like I said earlier, that is a very selfish form of economics, which can only end badly. But for the future generations after we are all gone (or most of us). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltatango301 Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) If the isolationists really do limit immigration we have serious problems. In reality, i doubt anybody will actually limit immigration and it will be a requirement of any EU deal anyway. All weve done is vote away any advantages we had. Yeah, great result. I can't see any problems with letting in the right people, if the NHS wants 500 nurses then we let them in, If the farmers want 1000 pickers we let them in, if we want more engineers we let them in. At least in the future now we don't let in criminals or so called terrorists and we will be ableTo send back those that have been put in prison and then send them back to their own country. I don't have any problem with anyone that earns their living here and pay their taxes were ever they come from. Edited June 24, 2016 by Deltatango301 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I can't see any problems with letting in the right people, if the NHS wants 500 nurses then we let them in, If the farmers want 1000 pickers we let them in, if we want more engineers we let them in. At least in the future now we don't let in criminals or so called terrorists and we will be ableTo send back those that have been put in prison and then send them back to their own country. I don't have any problem with anyone that earns their living here and pay their taxes were ever they come from. We will have to let them in, what part of 'deal with the EU' is missing from this conversation. At some point the realisation will dawn that we have gained nothing and lost a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I can't see any problems with letting in the right people, if the NHS wants 500 nurses then we let them in, If the farmers want 1000 pickers we let them in, if we want more engineers we let them in. At least in the future now we don't let in criminals or so called terrorists and we will be ableTo send back those that have been put in prison and then send them back to their own country. I don't have any problem with anyone that earns their living here and pay their taxes were ever they come from. So if we have no agreement with the EU, how are you going to check who is a criminal or not? We wont automaticaly have access to foreign police records at the point of entry. Are you proposing that Visas will be needed to/from the EU and full background checks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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