Maciej Stelmach Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) Hello, For quite some time I've been thinking about the plant I own and it still puzzles me on what cross it really is. To give you some background, Wistuba had this plant in his web shop for several years, but it's no longer there. It was sold under the name H. nutans (Tramen) x ionasi. Today we know that there's no way the parent plan was H. nutans, as this species doesn't grow on or near Tramen Tepui therefore it cannot hybridize with H. ionasi. Not in the wild. Until several new species were officially described, Wistuba had them under the unofficial names, like for example: H. sp. (Ilu Tepui) which later became H. elongata, H. sp. "Bonnettia forest" - turned into H. huberi. There was also H. nutans (Tramen Tepui) - renamed later to H. arenicola! So what conclusion would there be? If that's the case then analogously H. nutans (Tramen) x ionasi should be renamed into H. arenicola x ionasi. But should we be that certain to do so? The book "Sarraceniaceae of South America" states that H. elongata and H. ionasi hybridize in the wild but hybrids between H. arenicola and H. ionasi are yet to be found. So still no solution. Plants of H. elongata x ionasi presented in the book do not resemble the specimen circulating under the name H. nutans (Tramen) x ionasi in cultivation. Here are some pictures of my H. nutans (Tramen) x ionasi which was purchased from Wistuba around 15 years ago: I believe that François Sockhom Mey shows the very same plant in the picture under this link: http://carnivorousockhom.blogspot.com/2014/07/welcome-to-cedric-carnivores-33.html, which he names H. nutans x ionasi (without giving location data of the parent "nutans"). Is it or is it not the same hybrid? Also, I got another interesting plant from one grower who stated that this is an old Wistuba clone. The name was H. (elongata x ionasi) x self. It's still young and grows ridiculously slowly (just as the clone mentioned above), but you can already see certain similarities: Does any of you know what do we deal with? In my opinion there's no way that H. nutans was involved in this cross yet people keep spreading this plant under the name which I believe to be incorrect. I'm sure some of you could shed some light on this. What do you think? Edited August 7, 2015 by Ptaah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sockhom Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Hello Maciej, Why do you imply that this hybrid nutans x ionasii, is a natural one? As far as I know, Andreas did create a few horticultural hybrids. The plant he once sold as Heliamphora nutans (Tramen) is now H. arenicola indeed. So your plant should be labeled as arenicola x ionasii. The best would be to ask Andreas himself but he's in Papua right now. ;-) All the best, François. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maciej Stelmach Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Hello, Thank you for giving this some thought. I'm not 100% sure that this is a natural hybrid, but I don't find it very important. As I don't remember the description from Wistuba's website from 15 years back, I cannot tell wheter its origin was specified or not. Fact is - plant's name was H. nutans (Tramen) x ionasi. So the location data was clearly stated. At least one of the parents'. Also, I don't find any similarities between this hybrid and H. arenicola, which has small nectar spoon to start with, unlike the hybrid. Recently I got an answer from person who sold me the H. elongata x ionasi and he encouraged me to stick to his name. To be honest, I'm very disappointed as I thought we have at least few experts on Heliamphora who would solve this riddle. The other option is that I'm being ignored, but I doubt that's the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden Posted September 3, 2015 Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 For a true answer, throw a email to andreas :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maciej Stelmach Posted September 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2015 Thanks Maiden - I'll surely do that once he's back from the expedition! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 I got a reply from him last week, he got the mails on his phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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