MichalP Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) I have bought this plant labeled as N. aristolochioides x spathulata, but such hybrid does not seem to exist. Could you try to ID this plant, please? http://postimg.org/image/olhfvn19p http://postimg.org/image/4plgg3k8d http://postimg.org/image/p8gcl5y5p http://postimg.org/image/tlew3l6wd http://postimg.org/image/i3yjc4qwd Many thanks, Michal Edited December 14, 2014 by MichalP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCurrell Posted December 15, 2014 Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Looks like an aristolochioides x spectabilis however identifying hybrids is very hit and miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichalP Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 (edited) TCurrell: thank You for your reply! I know ID hybrids is quite tricky, but in this case there is not so many posibilities... I bet on maxima x aristolochioides. What do you think? Edited December 15, 2014 by MichalP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCurrell Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 It could well be a maxima x aristilochioides, the leaf shape would certainly make sense then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 What about N. bellii x N. aristolochioides??? While it might be N. maxima x N. a., it looks a little too squat... no? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Olivermurray7373 Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 There is a aristolochioides x spathulata, but it does not look like that, I think that dave is the closest but there is also aristolochioides x spectabilis Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North West Neps Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 With that peristome, my guess would be aristolochioides x talangensis. I can't see any spathulata in there to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) Yeah, after looking at more photos, I can rule out N. spectabilis--it produces a different coloration pattern. The spathulata hybrid has a totally different shape. Only N. bellii has the right shape to produce this pitcher, in fact you can see bellii features in this photo: http://postimg.org/image/p8gcl5y5p and then there is this to consider: http://cpphotofinder.com/nepenthes-x-bellii-x-thorelii-x-aristolochioides-959.html Edited December 17, 2014 by Dave Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichalP Posted December 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Thank you all for your reply! Dave, bellii is a hot candidate! Thank you for pointing me on it. I made another picture that shows that the pitchers are not so squat. http://postimg.org/image/umq93dqnt Hmmm, so it is not so easy as I hoped :/ Below are links to pictures of hybrids which look almost like my plant: maxima x aristolochioides http://www.darwiniana.cz/vamr/galerie/01349-t3.jpg https://www.flickr.com/photos/fraying/8417955093/ .. other pictures show a big variability of this hybrid bellii x aristolochioides https://nitrogenseekers.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/20140614-073002-27002051.jpg https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2926/14239159208_dedff57a48_b.jpg http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php/136024-Show-Me-Your-Aristo-Hybrids!?p=1159636&viewfull=1#post1159636 http://nitrogenseekers.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/20121130-095858.jpg bellii x (thorelii x aristolochioides) http://www.exoticaplants.com.au/admin/uploads/belxthorxaristo.jpg Involuntary Bliss = aristolochioides x mira https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6p9vNw6KzFQ/UpZ_QxCGN5I/AAAAAAAAEpI/6JILyDO73OY/w477-h846-no/IMG_20131127_152452_508.jpg https://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6eyjux3xA1qfpqbpo1_1280.jpg http://leilaninepenthes.com/Images/DSC_2026.JPG http://leilaninepenthes.com/Images/DSC_2043.JPG https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bw21zsZCIAE5lU7.jpg http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6eyjux3xA1qfpqbpo1_500.jpg spectabilis x aristolochioides https://nitrogenseekers.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/aristo-spectabilis.jpg .. but this hybrid has striped mouth burbidgeae x aristolochioides http://www.borneoexotics.com/images/catalogue/h-650/BE-3556a.jpg .. other pictures of this hybrid prove not to be relevant to my plant Which hybrid would you choose? Which do you think is the most closest to my plant? Is still bellii x arist. your favorite? Thank you a lot! Michal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Well, the thing with N. merrilliana, N. bellii and others in this group are not consistent with the shapes of their pitchers. I believe this whole group is actually a massive and rather old hybrid swarm. N. bellii literally switches between making gracilis/alata like pitchers to pitchers that are near round like a ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Look at the wings. I can rule out all but bellii x aristolochioides and Involuntary Bliss = aristolochioides x mira. The mira looks about right, the wings are only half way down the front of the pitcher... bellii x (thorelii x aristolochioides) has wings the whole down to close to the tendril. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichalP Posted December 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 I bought this nep during exposition last summer and I think my nep was only aristo-hybrid sold there. So I decided to try to find out a seller and ask him/her for my nep ID. I finally succeeded thanks to Zlatokrt (nickname on this forum). The seller kindly replied to my email and he replied somethink like this: "I looked what hybrids did I have during exposition and yours seems to be N. spathulata x aristolochioides for 99%. Leaves are quite similar to spathulata ones and mouth as well. Then size of plant: I gues plant was about 20cm in diameter and in this size I had only noted hybrid... If you are comparing to BExtotics, then note that BExotics sells this hybrid in several clones. So you cant compare by commonly published photos because your hybrid is slightly different..." So I think riddle solved :) Dave, TCurrell, Olivermurray7373, Welshy: you have my BIG THANKS that you involved to ID my plant! Michal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North West Neps Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 I still can't see any spathulata in there though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Yeah, really. There is no N. spathulata. If he bought as that, it was mislabeled from the get-go. However, I do agree that the leaves are spathulate, but so are quite a number of species' and many, many hybrids' leaves. Including N. aristo itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichalP Posted December 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Welshy, Dave thank you both for expressing your disagreement! According to your last replies I wrote to the seller there are serious doubt about his labeling. And he replied he tryied to recall what did he sell during exhib and considered more leaves then pitchers as they were small in that time. He admited that in case of doubt it could be aristo x mira. He definitely ruled out a bellii x aristo as he has never had this hybrid in his collection. And he promised to compare plants in his greenhouse and check some documents from exhib time. We will see then... Michal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North West Neps Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) I still think it's got the peristome and pointed pitcher bottom of talangensis.... Does the seller have talangensis in his collection ? Edited December 20, 2014 by Welshy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Welshy, both N. aristolochioides and N. talangensis have that feature :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North West Neps Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Yes, i know they do Dave, and that's why i'm thinking the shape has remained very prominent in Michal's hybrid. We're trying to find out what's mixed with the aristolochioides aren't we ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Well, I don't think N. aristolochioides x N. talangensis would come out with these exact features, but I do understand what you mean about it looking similar to N. talangensis... Both N. aristolochioides and N. inermis are like more extreme variations of the more basic N. talangensis. But N. t. and N. a. are sister species with a lot of features in common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichalP Posted December 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Thank you, Welshy and Dave, for your replies! The seller ruled out hybrid with N. talangensis as he has never had it in his collection. He checked if my plant is spathulata x aristo or aristo x mira. And after checking some documents and plants in his greenhouse his final result is that my plant is a spathulata x aristo hybrid. He received spathulata x aristo plants in several clones from Borneo Exotics two yers ago and my plant is one of them. So he insists it is a clone of spathulata x aristo hybrid although it is not a usual one... And he doubt BE had mislabeled it. Here is foto of plitcher of his plant (http://postimg.org/image/s0eqlauhf) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 How does his plant compare to yours? To me, they don't appear the same... But these are flat photographs and sometimes we can't see things correctly... I have received mislabeled plants from BE. Once, I received N. hispida mixed into a shipment of N. hirsuta (two different species under one tag). It was nice that I was able to see they were different and segregate them. I also recall other problems with a hamata hybrid that turned out to be three different hybrids (two of which didn't have hamata as the father)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichalP Posted January 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Dave, thank you for your reply! In reply to my last email the seller noted that he received about 6000 plants from BE by now and there was no mislabeling at all. From every order he keeps a few plants for his collection (he has about 20 000 plants in his greenhouse). In size of my plant he has spathu x aristo hybrid in several clones. Plants of aristo x mira hybrid he has smaller. For me, according to photos I saw and your replies, the winner is aristo x mira hybrid. But the seller seems to have no doubt about spathu x aristo, so I have labeled my plant as spathu x aristo. I believe him... Edited January 8, 2015 by MichalP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatchGreyes Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I've also bought plants labeled as BE aristo x ventricosa from a grower. Turns out they were BE aristo x talangensis. Allegedly, the baggies they were sealed in were from BE, meaning someone at BE mislabeled them. You'd really have to wait until that plant gets older to tell for sure, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichalP Posted December 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 So, after two years plant got bigger and finally turned out to be a female of N. aristolochioides x mira (also known as N. 'Involuntary Bliss')... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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