KEPBEPOS Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 I understand what you say and I agree about the proves I just say what they admit about the origins of their Cephalotus....In coclusion for me that i understad from this topic is that we have a unique plant that under different circumstances adapt it self and change their trap formation to eats climatic conditions.But still i believe that a photo album of identification for Cephalotus it will be very helpfull especialy from growers that have experiance becouse there are not many pictures on internet about registred or not Giants Cephalotus to compare and have eats of us their conclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fischermans Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Here an article from 2003 which may helps. http://www.auscps.com/ftn/Carniflora1.pdf Alexander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Here an article from 2003 which may helps. http://www.auscps.com/ftn/Carniflora1.pdf Alexander Perhaps a little easier to read here: http://users.humboldt.edu/rziemer/Franco/CephalotusfollicularisGiant.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitar Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) The Information in the two links above is quite old and it's full of errors. Myths and legends, moreover urban legends and assumptions is all written in those articles... Can we count those as a Hummers Giant? Phill Mann's stock plants The pic belongs to Phill Mann.. Edited December 31, 2014 by dimitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fischermans Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Thank you mobile it's much more easier to read. Dimitar, I don't want to say there is no giant plant of Cephalotus outside nor the article will do so.Interesting pictures of stock plants.Watering from above. I only posted the link cause I found it useful to read all information and arguments. What I found very very interesting in the article cause it sounds plausible and would explain why some plants are bigger or darker than others: "The propagation of seedlings and cuttings in vitro promotes the doubling, tripling, and even quadrupling of chromosomes in plant cells (Demoise, 1969) . This phenomenon is known as polyploidy. When plants have extra chromosomes, they usually have larger characters: larger fruits, flowers, and leaves. Furthermore, The use of alkaloid chemicals in horticulture such as colchicine, a known polyploidy inducer, naturally produced by a plant Colchicum autumnale or Autumn crocus, has been a common practice since the mid 1940’s to improve physical characteristics of plants (Dawe, 1998) . It is by no means implied that the origins of the “Hummer’s Giant” and the “true giant” are due to chromosome duplication or to exposure to polyploidy inducers. Scientific data is needed to confirm or discard the hypothesis of chromosomal duplication. It is, however, a very plausible explanation on how these giant clones arose, keeping in mind that the general consensus regarding Cephalotus follicularis pitcher size is that they are small and no larger than 5 cm (1.96 inches)." Regards Alexander Edited December 31, 2014 by fischermans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitar Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Yeah, but I find this quite funny and I've always wondered what is Cephalotus Giant, True Giant, Czech Giant, German Giant, Munich Giant, Emu Point Giant, Ledge Bay Giant, Slack's Giant, 'Hummers Giant' , Phill Mann's Giant etc... What does "Giant " mean? Does the the add "Giant " make those special? Edited December 31, 2014 by dimitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fischermans Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 For me it is simple.If a plant has pitchers with around 5cm to 7cm its a normal plant and if the pitchers reach 8 or more it is a giant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitar Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Hmmm, yep I tend to agree with u and then I need to cross out most of these since they can't get 8cm pitchers. Cephalotus Giant, True Giant, Czech Giant, German Giant, Munich Giant, Emu Point Giant, Ledge Bay Giant, Slack's Giant, 'Hummers Giant' , Phill Mann's Giant etc... Edited December 31, 2014 by dimitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozzen Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Carl - you absolute legend! Why have I not seen this until now!! Thank you - a real intriguing read Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozzen Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Ye - I think this is a correct way for now. Until there is a way we will all measure the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Yeah, but I find this quite funny and I've always wondered what is Cephalotus Giant, True Giant, Czech Giant, German Giant, Munich Giant, Emu Point Giant, Ledge Bay Giant, Slack's Giant, 'Hummers Giant' , Phill Mann's Giant etc... What does "Giant " mean? Does the the add "Giant " make those special? Technically, I don't think Emu Point was originally called giant, was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fischermans Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Here my suggestion for measurement of a Cephalotus. First if it's a giant one. Pitchers less than 7 cm is normal and more than 7 cm is giant. http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?app=galleryℑ=8382 and if it's a fat boy. Everything less then 3 cm is normal and more than 3 cm is a fat boy. http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?app=galleryℑ=8381 What do you mean Edited December 31, 2014 by fischermans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitar Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) Technically, I don't think Emu Point was originally called giant, was it? Technically, none of these quoted above is giant, except C.'Hummers Giant'. A lot of typical Cephalotus easily achieve 7.5 +cm pitchers without any effort but this doesn't make them 'giant', neither something special. Edited December 31, 2014 by dimitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fischermans Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Technically, none of these quoted above is giant, except C.'Hummers Giant'. A lot of typical Cephalotus easily achieve 7.5 +cm pitchers without any effort but this doesn't make them 'giant', neither something special. Ok we can say 8 cm is normal and more is a giant plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitar Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Alexander, I do appreciate and admire your desire we all to go out with equal measurements what is "giant", but frankly I haven't seen so far united opinion of this issue u know, have u seen ? Ok we can say 8 cm is normal and more is a giant plant. If we accept that, almost 99% from all so far called " Cephalotus giant" would be disqualified, I'm afraid. But I agree it is high time to put in order what is giant and what not. I hope more peeps to take part in that discussion :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fischermans Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Alexander, I do appreciate and admire your desire we all to go out with equal measurements what is "giant", but frankly I haven't seen so far united opinion of this issue u know, have u seen ? Dimitar, we both just start this and hopefully it will end up in an highly agreed measurement system for Cephalotus. I hope too that more peeps take part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitar Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Cool To ask u, are there similar opinions in the German community regarding this? Perhaps in the German forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fischermans Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 There are some discussions about the difference between German Giant and Hummers Giant but nothing about concrete measurement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 In my opinion a measurement without the lid is also needed for cephalotus, as some plants hold their lids more upright than others 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North West Neps Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 In my opinion a measurement without the lid is also needed for cephalotus, as some plants hold their lids more upright than others I too have said this recently, but the problem is measuring the back of a pitcher on such a tightly compact plant, it's not always going to be easy.. Unless you cut it away from the plant first, which nobody is going to do to their prized specimen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 There will always be "Giants", as it adds much more market appeal All those who have paid silly money for their "Giants" aren't going to relabel and thus devalue them based on a new measurement criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fischermans Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 There will always be "Giants", as it adds much more market appeal All those who have paid silly money for their "Giants" aren't going to relabel and thus devalue them based on a new measurement criteria. Hello mobile, it's not to compel others for relabeling their plants. It's to inform others that a so called giant has only pitchers of for example 7 cm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozzen Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Like dimi said a consensus needs to be confirmed an adhered to by collectors or persons with said plants - but then you go into the area of typical plants which is what they all derived from but from time to time have morfed genetically or under certain condition an lighting etc! But for sure a way to measure. What does the Australian growers an American growers measure by? What's the said society's take on the giant form? Or icps on the matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ada Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) I'd agree with measuring just the pitcher(no lid )because it can be so variable. ada Edited December 31, 2014 by ada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 For me it is simple.If a plant has pitchers with around 5cm to 7cm its a normal plant and if the pitchers reach 8 or more it is a giant. Hello mobile, it's not to compel others for relabeling their plants. It's to inform others that a so called giant has only pitchers of for example 7 cm. So those who have bought "Giant" clones that are 5-7cm, most I suspect, what should they do? By your criteria they would be normal plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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