snapperhead51 Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Now the weather has stabilized here in Southern AU the plants are growing again a few nice photos of location plants pitchers . French mans bay Gull Rock road Two peoples bay A double pitcher with one lid,quite uncommon to see . North Cliffe hope you like them 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Very nice, did you collect the seed from the locations? Like the double pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paul y Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 just a question, if I were to sneak into your greenhouse and rearrange all those location labels could you accurately relabel them? as in can you see a difference each and every time between two different location labelled cephs? to be quite honest I have and many others have major issues seeing the differences in cultivar cephs let alone seeing any difference between location cephs, if they all grow and look pretty much the same what exactly is the point in location data? just questions paul 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocky71 Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yup, I think along the same line Paul. When I first discovered ceph's I went in head first, trying to own every variety. Truth is I have about 9 varieties but I think in a test the only one I could be certain of would be " Dudley Watts" as in my conditions it does grow differently shaped pitchers to the others. From now on I'll be looking discerning features such as " double ribbed " aboves names and locations. Whilst location data is a talking point, it doesn't add any value to the plant for me. After all, trace all our Ceph's back on a family tree and they would have one day originated from some location in Western Australia. Lovely looking ceph's none the less Snapperhead and thanks for sharing, i guess the data would become extremely important should that clone ever become extinct in the wild. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ada Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Nice looking cephs John,plenty of flowers,they must be happy in their conditions. Location plants and seed grown plants are important because of the different genes they contain.If a disease wiped out all the cephs in one location,plants in other locations could be immune due to slightly different genes, ada 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Location details are to keep the genetic types of a particular area available for reintroduction if the need arises.Whether or not they look different is irrelevant, it's the genetics that are important. So really what you would be growing is a "typical" ( oh I hate that term) with a home address. Crosses of different locations are worthless for this purpose. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitar Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Location details are to keep the genetic types of a particular area available for reintroduction if the need arises.Whether or not they look different is irrelevant, it's the genetics that are important. So really what you would be growing is a "typical" ( oh I hate that term) with a home address. I totally agree with u Fred. You have said exactly what I would say. Crosses of different locations are worthless for this purpose. Indeed, so true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paul y Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) id be willing to bet huge sums of money that those location plants will never be used to replace lost wild location plants. its the same deal with mikes ark hes told me himself its ex situ with no intent to use genetic material to replace lost wild populations, same applies with plants preserved at kew, rarely if ever are they used to attempt to repopulate wild locations. if disease wipes out a natural stock of plants then who are we to interfere and replace them? nature dealt them a fatal blow so be it respect the turn of events, when a population is lost due to habitat desctruction then the location is lost for good and any location plants are preserved for posterity nothing else. when a site has been poached to destruction then replacing plants there is pure folly. so im assuming each and every ceph in that collection has been fully genetically profiled and recorded and the relevant info has been logged with the relevant authorities etc etc with a full plan to use those plants as replacements for lost stock? or if I were to spend a lot of money buying location cephs that I cant see any difference in just how would I know that they are not in fact just tc crap from some dutch tc nursery? another question does a location label attract a higher sales price? paul Edited November 25, 2014 by paul y 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partisangardener Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) But for cultivation is a variety of genetics usually good for healthy plants. For science is the benefit of these tagged plants good for comparing their genetics. Especially when a natural population is wiped out. Maybe there is a plant with resistance against root rot under less ideal circumstances. Drawback is of course the fact that for these located plants a higher price is charged. It’s only a matter of time until they will consist of mainly faked origins. It’s a different matter with plants from Botanical Gardens, they usually don’t participate at the market. Greetings Axel Edited November 25, 2014 by partisangardener Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Pauly , really ,sorry have know idea what you are on about , any how , we are not allowed to replace plants back unless your a Gov department fisheries and wildlife, its illegal (all though some try to repopulate small areas with cannabis plants we hear !!) , and as in Coal mine beach site, the department will do nothing to prevent the natural destruction of a site , !!, And yes if you took the labels out i can put them back in the correct pots , if you were to see them in real time you would then know the differences its quite obvious , !.. if you spend your money the plants will be as labeled and not from some unknown nursery mainly because they have not been distributed as yet and no body has them , as in the ones shown above , if some one claims they do other than 2 friends in EU and UK there not tell the truth , , ,I'm sure once they out some will try to claim that they have the real deal !!. As far as all looking the same , well I guess one would need to see them in the wild site locations to know that , have you seen them in the wild to actually know ?? , my experience leads me to believe most people till they actually see the plants in there locations they dont see the true and whole picture, as with nepenthes , tubers drosera, sarras ,VFT ect ect . so saying that they all look alike may be just a lack of real field experience to actually view the differences in the site location plants .and once one has seen them its again very easy to see . As far as populations being wiped out , most of the sites are still in good order, some are very small in size like French mans bay and now Coal mine beach , we believe the Emu Bay site ( that is wrongly named by the way , its a bit further up than actual Emu bay !) ,is gone now to dew housing development or other stress to the site , last trip from a few friends were unable to locate any plants in the area , it happens . they may reappear from deeper rhizomes its possible ?. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Very nice, did you collect the seed from the locations? Like the double pitcher. some are from seed yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitar Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) another question does a location label attract a higher sales price? Yes, it does. I have had offers from EU and USA growers and from some nurseries as well with prices above € 500 for small location plant... Two days ago I got offer with price €800 from EU grower for small plant or even leaves from that seed grown clone C. Northcliffe.... However, if u were in my shoes would u accept those offers and the money , Paul? Edited November 25, 2014 by dimitar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ada Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Its been said many times before, a plant is only worth what someone is willing to pay. If someone offered me 800 euros for a plant and i had a spare i would sell it them first without hesitation. There will be many fakes out there soon enough,so why not take the money? ada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 These plants will almost definately never be used for repopulation of locations. There worth is in their genetic diversity. Their value is whatever anyone is willing to pay for them. Location has been used for a long time for Sarracenia, some of which even the seasoned grower would not be able to tell apart. Irrespective of what people think about location plants, there will always be growers who want them, whether it's for their diversity, or because they like collecting all variants. Look at the money that all the new variants that appear reach, even if their unique characteristic stability is unknown. What I find interesting is the potential for some gene variance, which comes from seed grown plants, which might give us more plants like the lovely coloured Northcliffe that Dimitar has pictured above. Ultimately, fakes will appear no matter what. These locations are already known, so the potential is already there. The only way you can absolutely guarantee the source is if you can trace it back to a genuine originator, something that many cannot do with their clones/cultivars. Anyone here able to trace their 'Hummer's Giant' back to John Hummer for example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredG Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 ............................................when a population is lost due to habitat desctruction then the location is lost for good and any location plants are preserved for posterity nothing else This is untrue. In the 1980s, we, in the Northern Section CPS, offered to repopulate an area of reclaimed bog in the Peak District with native Drosera. The offer was accepted with the proviso that the plants that were to be used in the reintroduction were grown from seed originating from that same area. We, unfortunately, could not comply with this as location plants at that time were something of a rarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 So I take it John had permission to collect and distribute these seeds and dimitar had all the proper cites to receive and distribute these seeds and plants.Sorry but I may of missed something but had to ask,and if so has anyone else done the same because I believe you state if anyone else says they have these plants they are fakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitar Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 if anyone else says they have these plants they are fakes if somebody tells u that he has or sell C. Northcliffe and it is the same clone as my above - be sure he is lying you. The plant is 3.5 years old seed grown and has never been propagated so far from me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Sorry I took it as if anyone in the eu was selling location plants was fake.And obviously thats a load of crap because anyone has the ability of collecting the seeds legally or not.My bad I didn't think we were talking clones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) The seed is from my own plants " not wild collected ", to go collect seed would cost be around $450 AU around trip just not viable ! the plant material has been well documented really do not need to keep going over over other the same thing surly !! unfortunately one of the collectors has passed away earlier this year .. as for cites ,who has a cites for there cephalotus plant , any one ,can some one show a certificate please, any one ! Any seed sent has been declared to the customs by the customs declaration form as required !! ,no other information is required according to this form !. Its quite sad that all the EU ares has been or seems to have been so badly ripped off or taken for a ride that when a genuine thing comes up its can not be taken as such, truly sad ! Edited November 25, 2014 by snapperhead51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocky71 Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 $450 Snapperhead?, That's not even one leaf of a " C.Northcliffe" according to Dimitar, plenty viable I'd say !. Good luck to you all, there's no malice or jealousy from me, just intreagued is all. As long as wild growing plants aren't being removed then I have no argument. To be honest, growing any ceph from seed to adult size is worthy of a decent price. 3 years of my life have passed and my seed grown are still tiny .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Well I am sorry if what I think is a responsible question is so sad, like I said I might of missed something and I do not recall the question been asked before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted November 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Blocky 71 this may interest you then, not location plant but one of great interest to me , this plant is grown from seed and i got a mature piece of the mother plant about 1/4 of the original plant at 2 years old the pitchers were 6+ cm ,is now 3 years old , we call it Mikes super fast, Carl has some seed on trial now , who knows what the seed will do , but very impressed with its growth speed of the mother plant from a seed grown plant in 3 years to this I think is reasonably impressive . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I sowed "Mikes Super Fast" at the same time as several other seeds, and so far it is ahead of them all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted November 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 yes Carl very keen to see if that seed grows like the mother plant ,look forward to your results in the near future , really I questioned the owner of the plant because of its size to age, but it was true ,it was quite amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocky71 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I've seen a couple of dubious posts on here showing huge plants that have supposedly grown in no time at all for their owners. There'll be no arguing this as they are being grown by different people. A proven " super fast " clone would indeed be on my wish list as everything happens super slow under my conditions... Keep up the good work, Carl I hope you're taking some timescale pics of those seedlings ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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