Eden Black Pictures


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Dimitar,my friend, i will send you one of my EB leaf cuttings. See how you get on with that.

 

 

Adrian, thank you for generosity, really much appreciated but no, thanks. I really don't know why the people including Stephen thought that I don't have and didn't have C. Eden Black, opposite I had and in the spring this year all the 2 divisions went to the USA....

 

Well, its time to leave too that forum as well. Don't really want the people to feel offended. Sorry if someone feels offended, it wasn't on purpose.

 

Good bye to all.

 

P.S If the moderators think that this thread is offensive, please feel free to delete my posts.

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I'm still interested to see what conditions make the colouration more pronounces. The pictures of EB I have seen on the internet, including this thread, show a great variance in colouration, from what I would consider as being typical for a Cephalotus to darker colouration.

 

Also, what makes a cultivar? Stability across different growing conditions have been questioned in this thread. Should a cultivar show the described characteristics in all typical growing conditions? This of course not only applies to 'Eden Black', but any other plant cultivar.

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I personally would love to get my hands on an eden black Ceph - I think it's a great looking plant I have never seen a darker ceph clone. I think its probably the only genuine really dark clone out there and I dont even grow it - but I do grow other clones that claim to be black or dark and have commanded high prices on $bay,  but I never see adult pictures of these plants posted anywhere, and mine have yet to show any real dark coloration thats anywhere near the pictures I have seen of eden black.

 

At least Stephen registered it and posted pictures of his plant for all to see, and sent out plants to other growers and these plants show the characteristics in other growers conditions - thats more than good enough in my opinion, especially when some people are naming other dark clones with no pictures to back them up and just trying to make a huge profit selling them.

 

Anyone got any pictures of the Triffid albany black clone?

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I dont  think  Stephens growing ability or years of experience is  in question , believe  he grows great plants ,what little I see have been very high quality and well maintained.

 

I actually think it is a bit irresponsible to sell location seed, as I feel it increases the pressure on wild populations, and is completely uneccesary as the plant is well established in cultivation...and as you say there is just the one basic Cephalotus so where's the need?  :D

 

perhaps this is the topic for a new thread....

 

well  just for  "correct " information , the seed that have been sold  are from  plants in  my green house  not wild  seed or ,from wild  plants , so  no pressure on wild populations at all, and  would  be  impossible to  achieve  any  such crosses  in wild  population ,  simply because  of  geographic distances  between some locations sites,  to where some  sites are some 2 to  3 hrs drive apart and  the fact that  the cost to harvest wild seed  from my  state is just way to expensive and  a long 3 hr flight ,  plus hire a car ,  a 4 hr drive  to Albany ,  then several days of driving to each site plus  accommodation cost  ect ect ,  , would  just be  plain not worth  the effort .

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The biggest problem with a thread like this is that it can end up with a forum losing very experienced members over a difference of opinion which escalates wildly. Everyone loses, the individuals concerned lose contact with a wide group of people who respect them, the group loses their experience and advice gained over years.

 

The following is my personal opinion:

 

__________________________________________

 

1.

It is reasonable to expect that we will see some genetically controlled variation in a population of individual organisms* where these are genetically non-identical and generated by sexual reproduction** as opposed to populations generated by spreading rhizomes or cuttings in horticulture.

 

* (in this case plants)

**(i.e. the flower/seed cycle)

__________________________________________

 

2.

There is little doubt that Cephalotus follicularis is sensitive to micro-environmental differences. This has an impact on the observed characteristics in the wild in terms of size, growth rate and colouration. These differences may be driven by variation in temperature, soil conditions, water, sun exposure/shade and other factors. As these conditions vary through the growing year the colouration etc would also vary depending on the date of observation.

__________________________________________

 

3.

It is reasonable to expect that careful observation of seed raised plants in horticulture will identify some phenotypic differences that are genetically controlled (see 1). If propagated by asexual means* then this differences will be preserved forming a genetic line** that may or may not be registered as a cultivar.

*(i.e. root or leaf cuttings)

**(clones)

__________________________________________

 

4.

Taking into account the variability of the species discussed in 1 it is to be expected that horticultural growers will see mixed results when they grow the genetically selected examples in 3.

__________________________________________

 

 

I know that Stephen has spent a long time observing his own plants.

- In the case of the cultivar C. follicularis 'Eden Black' it is believed that this clone has a genetic propensity towards more intense colouration than many other examples.

- However differences in growing conditions will mean that it is more or less coloured for some growers.

- In the right conditions this cultivar should show a very dark purple/black colouration when compared to other examples in the same conditions.

 

 

This is not too big a deal surely, in the grand scheme of things?

 

Please can someone (John?) get in touch with Dimitar and ask him to get back on board?

I will email Stephen and ask the same. They don't have to agree, like each other or talk to each other but all of us have benefited from their input and would continue to do so.

 

Cheers,

Steve

Edited by CephFan
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Steve, that is a very sound and level-headed reasoning. I think that what has happened in this thread is people have got passionate about their thoughts and I don't think that anyone should leave just because of their passion on a subject. The fact that they are passionate encourages debate, and it is debate that makes a forum great. Do we really want a Fb style forum where people just post pictures and members 'Like' them?

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Hello everyone,

I must admit, that I haven't read the whole topic, but I read quite much of it. As a happy owner of Cephalotus 'Eden Black' from the first hand from Stephen, I think I have all rights to write a few words about my own observations and thoughts.

 

I got the plant in 2012. When It came to me, it had distinctively darker, but not black colouration. Because of my absence, already small plant, was almost killed and it lost all above parts. It was just dried to the bone and after a week of proper care, a 2mm leaf started to grow back. That is why my observations about its pitchers colouration in my conditions, have delayed to this year, when it produced an adult pitcher again.

 

For now the plant looks like that:

KopiaIMG_0594_zpse4793564.jpg

 

From it current look it does not fit MOST PEOPLE IDEA of how it should look like, meaning, to be all black or very dark colour. It was also my idea about that plant. Since I want my collection to be much diverse, I want to have plants which are very much distinct from the first sight, even to regular people.

 

I admit, I didn't read the description of this cultivar, I do not know how the colour durability and intense, was described during registration. Because I don't have that knowledge, I am not judging the plant by "how I imagine it to be", what unfortunately, many people do.

 

I know, from my own experience, that the colder night Cephalotus are treated with, the more intense colour it will have. My regular Cephalotus got their deep purple colour only when I exposed them to small frosts. Before that, they were merely coloured, with domination of green, more than purple. That is why I am waiting till frosts will come, to see how all the pitchers of all cultivars I have, will behave in same conditions. That is the moment, when I will be able to compare plants in my collection, but will not allow me to compare them with others growers results. They might have totally different conditions, growing methods, soil mixes, which will have different effect on the same plants.

 

Now there is a very important question. What requirements have to be made for a carnivorous plant, to be allowed to be registered and named as a different cultivar?!

 

Since I have friends who love Galanthus and have shared their passion with me, I got interest a bit in Galanthus cultivars as well. Why I mention that, is because, as I was told, for a Galanthus to be registered it has to be grown in at least three different gardens, in different conditions and the feature it is distinct of, MUST be stable. BUT! That is one of the rules made for Galanthus cultivars registration. It might not apply to CPs registration rules, so also the result of registered CPs cultivars will be different in cultivation. Especially the feature stability in various growing conditions. Maybe such rule should be made before CPs registration, maybe not, maybe it already is (of what I don't know). In my opinion, it  is a good one.

 

There is also one other example I would like to describe. I have two "forms" of Dionaea 'Red Dragon'. One with a number added to it, one without. The one without the number is an older cultivar/clone/form. Both plants in high amount of light look exactly the same, with beautiful, deep, dark colour. The difference appear in very little amount of light. The older clone is getting a lot of green, to almost all green with just trace of colouration, wile the newer form with number, is always a lot more coloured, but not so intensively as in full sun light of course.

 

If in case of that Dionaea, we consider as a distinctive feature the final colour, they won't be distinctive at all, but if we treat the amount of constantly produced anthocyanins, than they are very much different.

 

Now back to Cephalotus 'Eden Black'. If it was registered for its final result - dark, close to black colour, it is now obvious, that if not given a certain conditions, that much wanted characteristic, will not appear. At least that is what I hear from here and there. But if it was registered as capable of producing much more anthocyanins than the regular Cephalotus, than the registration will fit the truth. I hope to be able to see the difference between Cephalotus 'Eden Black' and regular Cephalotus, grown in the SAME POT and all the same conditions, when the frosts will come. In my case, when it is grown in same soil mix, in same pot, with same soil humidity and everything the same, the only difference I will have, will be the one coming from its genetic potential.

 

Sorry, for writing so much, but I noticed that some people do thoughts short cuts, which than can lead to misunderstandings and bad emotions.

Edited by Cephalotus
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Hi,

 

Interesting topic. This is my personal opinion on Cephalotus colour, I am sure is wrong, but anyway I'll share it. I guess it originates from being a southern european living in the UK.

To me, Ceph colour is like the skin,take as an example white people. I am white, when I was little and living in sunny Spain I always had quite a nice olive colour on me, in summers quite dark but in winter still nice olive. Since I moved to the UK, well after every winter I look pretty pale, no colour at all, you should see under my T-shirt. That is what sun does.

 

However in addition to sun levels, there are people which show naturally a darker colour, those who get suntanned rapidly and nicely, people with more fair skin, those that don't do browning at all etc , etc, and all are still white people, same race.  Well Cephs are pretty much the same I think, of course the lighting conditions do affect the colour of the plants, but there are plant that are darker than others (in identical conditions) for sure. And EB is one of those that suntans easy and very well, so I would not put that into question. The are other clones that can compete with EB for colour but you will be very very pushed to find a clone that under identical conditions gets as dark as EB, of course some might be (or will be) because if it happened once with EB, why is it not going to happen again?. At present you would be even more pushed to get one darker than EB, of course I am sure with time it will happen. 

 

I have a question for people that grow EB (and other dark clones) and the plants are green. Are your other Cephs clones growing on the same condition as EB any dark? I would be surprised. 

 

Now I would like to also share my opinion on colour desire....... Again the human skin is a very informative example. White people appreciate being dark, people even go to sun beds pay money to get dark, but interestingly dark people (my wife is indian) think being dark is no good, they appreciate being fair, they tend to think that a fair skin colour is prettier than a very dark one. Interesting. So a plant that does not colour well, although might not be appreciated is probably as valid and interesting as dark clones. 

 

The cultivar merit question. I absolutely think EB should be considered a cultivar, because is the first plant to have been described and noted for that characteristic i.e. being dark. I do not see anybody questioning hummers giant cultivar status (originally described for having larger pitchers than others) , and I am sure that we all have plants with bigger pitchers than Hummers (Duddley Watts for instance. much bigger..), and many of us have Hummers with pitchers nowhere close to the size described for Hummers pitchers.... why don't we all start complaining about that?? Also nobody thinks of saying, my plant with pitchers bigger than Hummers should also be a cultivar based on having big pitchers, or my hummers does not have pitchers of the size range described, thus the trait it was described for is not reproducible, therefore cultivar status is not deserved. Well guys, I guess we all accept that Hummers was the first to describe a plant with that characteristic which falls outside the norm, i.e. quite large pitchers. So let's all accept that Stephen was first in describing a plant that has the characteristic of being darker than the norm, and thank him for that.

 

And if anybody want to be the creator of a new cultivar with outside the norm characteristics, I suggest they find a plant which hardly goes dark, which there are (because I have some), grow it besides EB and a typical half red/green and describe it as having trouble to get colour. It should qualify as a cultivar on the same grounds (technically opposite) as EB did. 

 

Just a note, I don't care if I look pale I like living in the UK, for any of you who might have thought I am complaining about being in the UK. 

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Cephalotus Kingsley, Eden Black, Queen Mary


CompaCephalotus Queen Mary, Triffid Albany Black


 

I though of posting pictures that compare plants grown in the same place. EB is in the middle in the first pictures. In my opinion, EB is still the darkest. 

 

Second pictures shows a comparison between Triffid Albany Black and Queen Mary (actually same plant as in the first picture) so you can cross-compare. Somebody asked for pictures of Triffid Albany Black, I think? . 
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I though of posting pictures that compare plants grown in the same place. EB is in the middle in the first pictures. In my opinion, EB is still the darkest. 
 
Second pictures shows a comparison between Triffid Albany Black and Queen Mary (actually same plant as in the first picture) so you can cross-compare. Somebody asked for pictures of Triffid Albany Black, I think? . 

 

 

Yes I aksed for a picture, thanks for these. They all look pretty dark to me.

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I thought I would participate in this post with uploading my Eden Black pictures. Thanks again Stephen.

It is not my intension to get involved in the discussion of registrations and such. I am generally fond of the Cephalotus plants, cultivar status or not.

 

I have all my Cephalotus plants grown outside this year, which makes them colour up more. Probably due to the suns UV light.

This is my result for Eden black, next to a French typical clone I am particularly fond of because of its phenotypical redness.

Lets see if cold nights can intensify the colour.

 

Eden Black:

14819782957_c1b2ef504c_b.jpgIMG_7470 by swerfer, on Flickr

14819784917_09517309b5_b.jpgIMG_7469 by swerfer, on Flickr

 

typical:

15006293585_2a5b2a0768_b.jpgIMG_7475 by swerfer, on Flickr

14819575169_b4a48f3724_b.jpgIMG_7473 by swerfer, on Flickr

14819575169_b4a48f3724_b.jpgIMG_7473 by swerfer, on Flickr

15005913542_916042e79d_b.jpgIMG_7471 by swerfer, on Flickr

Edited by Swerfer
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Hi, I´m living at the south ramp of the Black Forest. In summer I cultivate my Cephalotus on a south facing patio. Here I have temperatures going up to 38°C for days. So what happens here. Some Cephalotus turning almost green, some are reddish and others are red/dark red. Even cultivars like Eden Black (3 pots), Adrian Slack (4 pots) etc. are of different color. They all have the same substrat, same sun and rainwater. 

It seems that Cepalotus does not react like other plants in some ways. I have a great collection of Tillandsias and also other Bromelidads.Specifically the leaves of Bromelidads turns to almost dark red. This is a protection agains the sun. In wintertimes the same plants are green.

In southern Brazil I was able to observe that Echinodorus (waterplants) are green in the summertime and as soon as the water getting colder ( 14-16°C) the leaves turn red. This phenomenon I see on C. when the temperatures here are dropping down. At  temperatures between + 2 - 7°C  I have the darkes plants. 

I post some pics of some of my plants.

img1862i3bc0ugf9m.jpg

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sch1865kgsx4a2olz.jpgimg1867bjroyieusm.jpg

Edited by Harro
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Please can someone (John?) get in touch with Dimitar and ask him to get back on board?

I will email Stephen and ask the same. They don't have to agree, like each other or talk to each other but all of us have benefited from their input and would continue to do so.

 

Cheers,

Steve

 

 

I talked to Dimitar before and what I've learned didn't made me very happy.  Dimitar and John both don't want to come back to the forum.  Both are also considering just completly stopping with the hobby. I cannot say about John with 100% certainty but I heard he already sold some stuff and is getting offers on his VFT and sarra's.  Dimitar is still deciding what to do which is a difficult decision to make.  If you like growing CP's like most of us do here then making the decision of stopping must be a very difficult one to make but I do respect their choice though it saddens me.

 

To bad that this topic turned out to a loss to the CP community.  I do hope people will change their mind and decide to further participate in this forum.  One thing is obvious that concerning Cephalotus cultivars there is a lot of discussion which might be worth to further debate.  Maybe we should move this discuccion instead of only discussing EB in particular to discussing Cephalotus cultivars in general.  From what I've read before I particularly like this:

 

 

 

Why I mention that, is because, as I was told, for a Galanthus to be registered it has to be grown in at least three different gardens, in different conditions and the feature it is distinct of, MUST be stable. BUT! That is one of the rules made for Galanthus cultivars registration. It might not apply to CPs registration rules, so also the result of registered CPs cultivars will be different in cultivation.

 

I think this is a good ground rule for cultivars since people buy a cultivar to get a plant with certain traits.  For a VFT plant it is very easy to get certain traits and remain to have them with different growers under different circumstances.  With Cephalotus things aren't quite the same.  Cephs are to "changy" as to show the same characteristics over and over again.  I got plants from the same clone growing side to side with differences in coloration and shape.  So maybe Cephs aren't worthy of cultivar status at all.  You can get named clones because people like to have a particular plant but a named clone shouldn't necessarily be a cultivar in my opinion.  Off all these registered ceph cultivars:

 

Cephalotus 'Clayton's T Rex'
Cephalotus 'Donna's Destiny'
Cephalotus 'Eden Black'
Cephalotus 'Hummer's Giant'
Cephalotus 'Jason's Arks'
Cephalotus 'Tina's Hallelujah Trumpets'
 
Which of these are really stable and proved to be stable?  I am from the opinion that Ceph are to difficult to keep showing certain characteristics to be registered as cultivars and they should just be named clones.  
 
I hope I opened up a healthy discussion here without targetting people in particular.  Just a discussion about wether or not Cephs could have a cultivar status and what should be the ground rules (in our opinion) before they could be granted the cultivar status.
Edited by Veek
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I am from the opinion that Ceph are to difficult to keep showing certain characteristics to be registered as cultivars and they should just be named clones.

I'm going to put my neck on the line and say to a certain extent that I agree. Unless a plant can show the same traits consistently as those in the cultivar description then I do not see how it can be considered a cultivar.

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Stephen waited 15 years before he made EB a cultivar,plenty of time for its colouration to be tested.

He also gave a few plants to select growers and as far as i know none of these disagreed with the description

ada

I agree partly with veek. but where do you draw the line if someone wants to publish a plant as a cultivar?

I have had sarracenia cultivars that don't grow anything like what they should and some of them you wouldn't think they were the right plant when grown in my colder less sunny conditions.

Did i start a topic and try to rubbish the plant or question it?

NO

I now grow plants that thrive and grow,that includes colouring up properly in my conditions.

We all know sarra's can be "funny" too.

some if you remove the flower wont grow pitchers that season,others if repotted loose colour.

Some if left alone will all of a sudden produce a massive pitcher "out of no where"

some of these aren't too unlike the cephs we are talking about but nothing is said about this to their growers

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Whilst this thread is about 'Eden Black', the same question applies to all Cephalotus cultivars:

 

'Is it not reasonable to expect a cultivar to match the cultivar description in all typical growing conditions?'

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Carl i do agree,the description should match, i can't say in all growing conditions,as i have tried to high light with another species,this isn't always possible even with experienced growers.

But it should match in most conditions,as i also said, Stephen waited many years and did give out some plants to growers to try in their conditions and no one disagreed with the description.

It looks like this topic is going to create a stand off with those who believe in EDEN BLACK as a dark coloured cultivar and those who believe its just a typical cephalotus that can go dark in certain conditions. it also looks like we are going to have a string of typical cephalotus with "pet" names because no one can create the same plant growing conditions as the next man,i.e my plant goes black but the bit i gave to a friend only goes red.

Hummers giant doesn't always produce big pitchers for everyone,so its only a typical then?

am i right Carl?

ada

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We're all very fond of stating how things grow "in my conditions".

 

Exactly Fred. So how do we deal with cultivars that only match the cultivar description "in my conditions"? Does the cultivar description need to be so detailed as to describe the conditions required to achieve the description? If it is not so descriptive then I would consider it reasonable for people to expect it to match the description "in their conditions".

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It seem that the topic changed its course from one particular cultivar to cultivars in general. :) Because that concern CPs in general and not only one Genus.

 

Before I will continue the new track, I would just like to add, that making rush decisions under influence of emotions, on a whim, is rarely making a good decisions. If my small opinion matters at all, I would kindly ask those which now are considering of making some important life changes regarding their passion, hobby, or regarding this forum, to postpone them to the time, when little or no emotions will be related to what was said here. A friendly advise.

 

Now back to the topic. :) I think, that if there is no such rule, that a new cultivar should be properly tested before registration, it should be made. I mean, like testing it under care of at least three different growers, in different conditions, to learn how stable the distinctive feature is. Also to learn possible conditions to make tested feature most pronounced. Of course I don't mean some totally extreme conditions, which might lead to plants death, lets not get carried away.

 

I hope that no one need to be explained, that growing conditions will always matter and will always module in some way our plants growth. I use word "always" totally consciously here. A simple and very bright example could be a Pinus sylvertsris or Betula pendula, which likes to germinate in rock crevice or in walls of some ruins. Lets consider those examples as totally normal genetically plants, not some super miniature mutations. Because of growing in very little root space, they will never achieve the regular or even average sizes of their species representatives, which will grow in optimal conditions. I hope no one would like to argue with that. If so, I suggest go out and find similar examples in ones surroundings to understand what I am writing about.

 

Because every plant has it optimal growing conditions (optimum) and two pesymum, it is most probable, that some features will be best visible in optimal growing conditions. That is to be expected. Some features might be more vivid in certain condition, like with example of Cephalotus, it seems many agree that cold temperatures push the plant towards more intensive colour. But maybe there is some other factor that can do that, even a bit and barely anyone noticed that? Has anyone properly tested its presence? Has anyone got strong observations? Please share with us here. Maybe some slight change to the soil mix, addition of some mineral, some ion in certain amount and the plants colour will change totally because of that, in all other conditions the same.

 

If a plant is registered, it should have some distinctive, stable characteristic. I agree, but only that this "stable" is not understood as always visible equally no matter what we will do. A plant put in total darkness, no matter how much hyperchromic, will not look the same when it will be kept in light or in full sun. That "stable" should apply to optimal growing conditions. A line should be drawn, otherwise, everyone will draw one on their own. That will lead to lack of understanding other.

 

To determine stability, tendency of being influenced by various growing conditions, there should be a strict rules made, which should be fulfilled before a plant could be called a cultivar and registered. Those rules should aim, to draw those lines where the feature is still easily visible and when it will stop being so distinct. Some features, according to my little knowledge, appear in some short time of plants life cycle, some occur more often when, the plant has ideal growing conditions. I still would not eliminate them as cultivars, if they are properly described. Same as Triphyophyllum peltatum is considered a carnivorous plant, although it is not as carnivorous as most of the other ones.

 

Another thing is, that same feature might appear in cultivation in other place, other plant, for the second time. Lets assume that the feature is exactly the same. In Galanthus lovers society, such thing is not a problem. Such plant, if it shows no distinctive difference from already existing cultivar (not normal plants), it cannot be registered under same or any other name. Although, it can be given a number or a code and spread under such, with a proper description. Because today it seems there are a few Cephalotus clones same dark as Eden Black or maybe even tends to get dark colours easier in some people growing conditions, because Eden Black was first to be registered, same ones or very similar ones to it, should not be allowed to be registered. Unless they show distinctive difference, for example, much more ease to get dark, even if the final result might be even the same, than why not. But it is all in proper and careful description with proper check in various conditions, before doing so.

 

I hope that the discussion that was made in this topic, will have at least some influence on the registration rules. I don't know who should go to those who decide regarding registration rules. Ha. :D I don't even read those rules myself. :D Can anyone help me where I can find those?

 

I almost forgot. Why some think, that a leaf cutting from a mother plant HAVE to have exactly the same feature in same strength, even under exactly the same conditions as the mother plant is kept? Micro-mutations occur all the time, they can appear at any time and when they do, we often see them as something new or different. Some characteristics can be transferred with seeds, some will vanish that way. At least according to my knowledge, cultivar can only be spread from vegetative propagation, but even that does not guarantee that all offspring will have the same genetic potential and the feature similar strong as the mother plant. Some should take that under consideration. Unless such process is not often, it should not lead to cultivar deregistration.

 

Everything I wrote here is with full respect to everyone taking part in this topic same as every only one reading it. Please lets, stay cool-headed.

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It looks like this topic is going to create a stand off with those who believe in EDEN BLACK as a dark coloured cultivar and those who believe its just a typical cephalotus that can go dark in certain conditions. it also looks like we are going to have a string of typical cephalotus with "pet" names because no one can create the same plant growing conditions as the next man,i.e my plant goes black but the bit i gave to a friend only goes red.

Hummers giant doesn't always produce big pitchers for everyone,so its only a typical then?

am i right Carl?

ada

 

ada, if a Cephalotus is capable of going dark under certain conditions, is it a dark coloured cultivar, or a clone capable of achieving darker colouration?

 

I think these are reasonable questions to ask. It is extremely unfortunate though that by asking such we have lost three good Cephalotus growers from the forum.

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ada, if a Cephalotus is capable of going dark in certain conditions, is it a dark coloured cultivar, or a clone capable of achieving darker colouration?

 

I think these are reasonable questions to ask. It is extremely unfortunate though that by asking such we have lost three good Cephalotus growers from the forum.

They are reasonable questions Carl

But its an easy answer as things stand.

if it has already been registered then its a cultivar

remember we are talking about Eden Black.

ada

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Darn it Chris that's too long, I need three naps to get through it

Sorry Fred, but I saw here earlier in this topic, that some taught shortcuts lead to severe misunderstandings, which I would like to avoid. I already read the topic word to word and the registration description of Eden Black three times.

 

There is something that came up wile talking with a friend. Since basically all Cephalotus characteristic features show up when they grow adult pitchers, why than they are sold/swapped when they are immature? It should be forbidden. Because every propagated plant can be different from the mother plant even when vegetatively propagated. So if such difference would occur and the newly grown plant is not sowing same characteristics as the mother plant, it should be eliminated from the certain cultivar status and not spread further under such name. That does not happen and maybe that is where other problem lies.

 

Because most of us also agree to buy such immature plants, we buy a "surprise, surprise". In time we learn they do not show the feature we waited for and what next? Frustration...

Edited by Cephalotus
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