Indo Nep - mislabel ?

[maxxima]

Hey everyone,

 

My plant's ID has come into question as it's blooming for the first time. I bought it as a Smilesii but turns out it may be something else.

 

Very thick roots, almost like a carrot. Vigorous in my dry intermediate conditions. Pitchers get bigger and more elongated by the end of summer. 

 

Manders asked me in another thread if the top of the leaves feels hairy. Honestly I don't feel much or any hair on the top surface but I can clearly feel hair beneath the leaves and on the sides.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave Evans]

That does look different from the common female clone from Phu Kradueng.  To me, it simply appears to be a N. smilesii from a different location...  Maybe Kirirom National Park?

[manders]

It really doesn't look like smilesii, not hairy enough and the shape of the leaves looks off, see if you can pm marcello catalano or sockhom for confirmation.

Edited June 23, 2014 by manders

[maxxima]

I tracked down my plant. I bought it in August 2012 and it's labeled as "N. Smilesii from Vietnam, Lang Bian Mountain, 1500 m - seedgrown". Milos is selling more in the sales section actually.

 

Thanks for the help guys, I'll wait a bit before sending PMs, don't wanna disturb folk.

 

Dave I'm sending you a signed copy of Prometheus!

Manders I checked Suratensis last night, it really looks similar, I hope we find out.

[gabgabinou]

Looks like my N. bokorensis :o

[Dave Evans]

It really doesn't look like smilesii, not hairy enough and the shape of the leaves looks off, see if you can pm marcello catalano or sockhom for confirmation.

The hairiness is a bit variable and the leaf shape is perfect for N. smilesii.  I ID'ed it by the leaves, short tendrils and indumentum.  Perhaps you're thinking about N. kongkandana?

 

I don't think N. kampotiana reaches that altitude, so while the pitcher shape is a bit like that N. k., I doubt it could be involved; based on the total lack of any solid N. k. features.

 

Baby pitchers on N. bokorensis often mimic lower pitchers of N. smilesii.

[manders]

Short tendrils can occur on any IC plant and smilessi tendrils can be as long as the leaf blade, a lack of hair on top, the red leaves and the lack of a 'v' shape to the leaf, all of these things seem to be pointing away from smilesii. I've never seen a smilesii without hairy leaves. Sockhoms photos of vietnamese smilesii don't appear to resemble this plant either.  The other thing you should notice about smilesii is that the leaves usually feel 'soft and velvety' whereas other IC plants have a harder feel.

Edited June 25, 2014 by manders

[manders]

Time for some fun, pick the plant below that looks most like maxxima's. These are all IC neps growing in highland conditions.

A

B

C

D

E

F

G

Edited June 25, 2014 by manders

[maxxima]

Guys I think this may settle the debate. Today in the dying afternoon light I just saw this:

 

 

 

 

 

Pitchers may be misleading because what you see here is actually sort of like the comeback of this pot. They suffered a transplanting shock early this spring and quickly came back from the roots. There's even a smaller plant in there that is just now making leaves again. So pitchers last summer were almost double this size and more elongated.

 

Anyway the whole plant seems to be covered in small white hair. Funny how light changes so much during a single day and reveals different aspects.

[manders]

Gotta say im still skeptical, if you cant obviously feel the hairs when you run your finger allong it then its not at all convincing... Apart from that its the strangest looking smilesii ive seen, that doesnt mean it isnt one but if it was in my collection i would be very skeptical. Some of the non-smilesii plants above would have hairs if you looked that closely.

What we really need is an expert here, or someone with a large varied collection of IC neps (phil?)

Edited June 25, 2014 by manders

[marcello catalano]

hi guys,

maxxima, your plant is smilesii, no worries, the hair is visible even in the first pictures... the pitchers are a bit more squat than usual, but that can often be the case... color patterns are far too familiar, as much as the flower spike appearing so soon at the rosette stage...

[Dave Evans]

Time for some fun, pick the plant below that looks most like maxxima's. These are all IC neps growing in highland conditions.

 

Sorry Manders, I can't tell what your plants are.  Same problem I had last time we played this game.  The photos just don't show enough detail.  I think you must be "shrinking" them or something...

 

Here is my clear photograph of N. kampotiana:

 

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~dpevans/Nepenthes/images/N_kampotiana03.jpg

 

 

Notice how you can clearly see there is no hair?

 

Of N. smilesii from Phu Kradeung, notice you can see the venation in the pitcher and the identical leaf apex/tendril insertion to maxxima's plant?

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~dpevans/Nepenthes/images/N_smilesii23.jpg

[Sockhom]

That is N. smilesii. 

 

François.

[maxxima]

Thanks much guys, I am happy it's a Smilesii indeed.

[andrewmc]

I will have a male veitchii in flower, we could try this weir hybrid if you wish.

 

Andrew

[Dave Evans]

Dave I'm sending you a signed copy of Prometheus!

 

 

I'd rather have editing control and remake the movie.  I swear, they used the bad takes and cut the good takes (if there were any!).  Actors not on queue?  Script a complete mess?  Who cares?  Not Ridley Scott.  The first tagline for the first one was, "In space no one can hear you scream"  While this one was, "Instead of making a good movie, we'll just tell you it is"

[manders]

Sorry Manders, I can't tell what your plants are.  Same problem I had last time we played this game.  The photos just don't show enough detail.  I think you must be "shrinking" them or something...

 

Here is my clear photograph of N. kampotiana:

 

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~dpevans/Nepenthes/images/N_kampotiana03.jpg

 

 

Notice how you can clearly see there is no hair?

 

Of N. smilesii from Phu Kradeung, notice you can see the venation in the pitcher and the identical leaf apex/tendril insertion to maxxima's plant?

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~dpevans/Nepenthes/images/N_smilesii23.jpg

Yeah, actually i dont grow kampotiana, it didn't like my highland conditions.

[manders]

Thanks much guys, I am happy it's a Smilesii indeed.

Glad thats sorted too, you cant get more authoritive than Sockom or Marcello. Without their input my money would have been on N. chang (one of the plants in my photos) but we all live and learn :)

[maxxima]

I will have a male veitchii in flower, we could try this weir hybrid if you wish.

 

Andrew

 

Andrew, Veitchii is one of my favorite nepenthes but I think mine is a male as well

 

 

 

Dave hehe, I feel the same way about Prometheus. At least the visuals are great as can be expected in a R Scott movie but that's about it. It's so difficult to watch those dorky "scientists" at work.

Edited June 28, 2014 by maxxima

[Dave Evans]

Maxxima, have you seen this on youtube?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BWnTW4rL0U

[maxxima]

Hahah ! So many details I hadn't even noticed like the pool game. "Hand sniffing" - lol!

 

By the way Smilesii has gone into some flowering frenzy. I have already cut off 2 stalks and now it's making 2 more. I also have to keep it submerged in water all the time or it wilts immediately. Among my nepenthes it's very different, I wish I had a female Smilesii as well.