SD Titan now SD Kronos


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I believe that's a B52 in the picture. I think it might be one that Christian bought from FlytrapRanch.com last year. Christian is an exceptionally good grower in a wonderful environment (Pacific Island). He uses a multi-layer substrate planting medium (for this planting and some others). When this plant was uprooted for transplanting, its rhizome (I believe it was the same plant in a subsequent photo) was truly huge and very impressive. This photo was taken in the Spring when the plant was growing prostrate. B52s of course grow more upright in the Summer. If Christian reads CPUKforum, perhaps he can comment or correct anything I've just written.

 

Yes, but I never meant that Phalanx or that B52 looks always the same as SD Titan, each month, each year. I was just saying that I wouldn't be able to recognize SD Titan in early spring, if grown together with B52 and Phalanx...that's all...

Probably my poor english didn't help me a lot in the explaination so I will end up here.

Thanks for sharing your monster Steve!!! Wish I could grow it one day and see the differences by myself.

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To Prized -- No problem. I was just trying to give some background and context to the photo you mentioned and linked to and the plant pictured in the photo, to the best of my memory. Those Venus Flytraps growing around the B52 in the photo are the clone Long Red Fingers, a rather small plant with petite traps that contrast with the B52s much larger traps near them. I wish I could remember exactly the various layers of the potting medium and procedure Christians uses. His results are very impressive. :)

 

I don't mind the doubts, questions and criticisms this discussion has generated about the plant that is the subject of the discussion. I think it's perfectly fine for people to be as suspicious, skeptical and doubtful as they wish or are inclined to be. I'm often that way myself, privately, even when I tend to express myself a little more politely and cautiously or be a little more reserved publicly. :)

Edited by FlytrapRanch
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Oh what a palaver people are making out of this.

 

I agree. It has been a very lively discussion. :ireful::blink::smile:

 

You have a very nice website, Richard--your Irish Carnivores website. It put a nice smile on my face to see a photo of one of my plants on the webpage, at the upper left. (you couldn't have known the photo had anything to do with me and I don't object; it appeared in various Web locations and was not watermarked; I'm pleased that you like it). If you ever need a larger copy of that photo for image editing purposes, here it is (the small current watermark can be removed; I don't care)--

 

http://s6.postimg.org/ewbvnnhwh/vft_vigorous04.jpg

 

That was a very nice plant and very photogenic; I was very fond of it. It is the original Vigorous Venus Flytrap clone available in the United States, before another Venus Flytrap by the same name entered the U.S. from Europe. The original Vigorous, which I regret I don't have anymore, was one of the best plants in my collection and produced the largest diameter rosette of any plant I've grown, and bushy and dense as well (I didn't measure it at the time, so please, no one ask me exactly how large the rosette was). It also produced some stunningly colored traps.

 

Here is another picture of a division of that same Vigorous plant.

 

http://s6.postimg.org/qzh7b7syp/young_vigorous_nice_color.jpg

 

(both photos referred to in this post were taken in 2007)

 

Regarding the other Venus Flytrap you found with the name Titan (BCP Titan), I'm not sure what to do; any suggestions?

Edited by FlytrapRanch
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Thanks for that Steve. I was just trawling the net looking for a good photo to use. It would be different if I was selling on the site but that's not what it's about as you can see.  Thanks for the link.  They're good photos that's why I used them.  As for the name of the plant, perhaps you could call it SD Titanic that way if it doesn't work out then you can guess what will happen. LOL. Best of luck.

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As for the name of the plant, perhaps you could call it SD Titanic that way if it doesn't work out then you can guess what will happen. LOL. Best of luck.

 

 

LOL. SD Titanic. Thanks, Richard.  :laugh1:

 

You know, I have just a perverse enough sense of humor to consider (however briefly) doing something like that. SD Titanic might please the naysayers and critics. I can certainly understand the critics though; if I saw this plant only in a few photos and had never grown it, I would likewise be suspicious, doubtful and critical, whether I felt too constrained by politeness to say so publicly or not.

 

If I used the other name you suggest and borrow the Titanic's sister ship name and call it SD Olympic, then some people might complain that the name sounds too pretentious or presumptuous, like SD Titan.

 

I'm just waiting for someone to suggest that I give the plant the name "SD Typical"

 

I think I'll just wait for a while and see if any other name comes to mind that I like, and then ask if anyone knows of any other plant by that name.

Edited by FlytrapRanch
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LOL... There's a grower in my country already distributed one of his seed grown plants under the name 'Titanic'.

Steve, how about the name 'Hulk'? :D

It's a name I planned to use on my own. But the candidates do not impress me this season. I personally think your plant is better described under this name. Big, strong and green :)

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Thank you, imonyse, for those comments and suggestion. Hmm, SD Hulk. You know, I like using themes to name plants (like the astronomy/mythology theme I used for this plant) but never considered a superhero theme. Interesting. :)

 

Very nice photos at weibo.com--

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I don't really understand all the hate towards the "SD Titan" plant. Yes, hate, as some posts can't be considered healthy skepticism. This plant has some great attributes unlike any other I know which is robust, prostrate growth and huge traps during whole growing season. For me it's gonna be a must have VFT! Seeing people getting all excited with new "cultivars" which have ugly, deformed and noncarnivorous leaves makes me wonder when this "searching for new awesome clone" madness has an end.

 

I wish you all the best with growing, propagating and distributing this marvellous VFT!

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I don't really grow VFTs... and then I looked around the greenhouse to see quite a number of them now dotted between other pots, so maybe I do now! I would happily add one of these to my collection.

 

It looks a good plant and as soon as it can be grown by a number of folk for a couple of seasons most of the arguments here will fade away. Lets see what happens in the 2014 and 2015 Biggest Trap comps!

 

I just wanted to say that it is a pleasure to see a VFT being promoted with healthy looking traps.

 

Cheers,

Steve

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Guest paul y

couldn't agree more steve, it is refreshing to see a vft cultivar that looks "normal" I still stop and shake my head in confusion after seeing "cheerleader", confusions not the right word and I lack another way to describe it, I am sure however that if "cheerleader" could speak it would beg non stop to be euthanized.

id like to see how this plant compares to the gargantuan vft ian salter has, that one ive seen in person and it easily needs its 2 litre pot

regards paul

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I grow  a good number of VFT's and i would guess i have around 50 different clones that produce traps to around 45mm -50mm  . Untill i produce a plant that produces traps consistantly over 50mm i will not select one for nameing in respect of size. My Southwest Giant and Darwin have won the Largest vft trap competion  and along with B52 i dont often see anything larger.

 

Lets face it New name = new sale.

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I think it's great that people are out there raising new and different clones of CPs, it's what keeps this hobby alive. I'm just glad it's not one of those deformed vfts which I'm not a fan of. As had been said before, time is the only real judge of any newly selected plant, if it's still being grown and is popular in several years....

As regards names, it does not matter what you call it at this stage, it's only a nickname. If you feel it's a worthy plant then publish and register it as a cultivar, and if no one has registered that name then it's available for you to use.

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I think it's great that people are out there raising new and different clones of CPs, it's what keeps this hobby alive. I'm just glad it's not one of those deformed vfts which I'm not a fan of. As had been said before, time is the only real judge of any newly selected plant, if it's still being grown and is popular in several years....

As regards names, it does not matter what you call it at this stage, it's only a nickname. If you feel it's a worthy plant then publish and register it as a cultivar, and if no one has registered that name then it's available for you to use.

You can use the name Southwest Giant as i could never be botherd to register the name :)

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Well, I guess I have a few more thoughts to add to the discussion--

 

Seeds continue to produce genetically unique plants, a few of which capture the attention of their breeders and growers. Breeding efforts continue despite the fact that there may already exist a nice variety of plants of a certain type. Humans continually produce new humans, despite the fact that so many of us already exist, and that such a great variety of us exists within just one species.

 

I'm glad that the Low Giant clone appeared, despite the fact that Big Mouth, another prostrate, large-trapped Venus Flytrap already existed, because I like Low Giant better than Big Mouth and think that it is a better plant, an improvement upon several characteristics for which Big Mouth is valued.

 

Among roses, Don Juan and Chrysler Imperial and Black Baccara already exist and all produce very nice deep-red flowers. But breeding for deep-red flowers with velvety texture continues. A new plant might have a nicer or stronger fragrance, or be larger, or be slower to drop its petals, or have greater disease resistance, or have a different growth habit, or be able to grow fairly well with its own roots rather than depending upon grafted rootstock.

 

Breeding Venus Flytraps is not much different than breeding roses or iris or orchids or any other plant for which there exists a market and an enthusisatic community of growers. Some people enjoy breeding plants to see what results might be achieved. However, one should always be wary of breeders claims, especially when money is involved.

 

People value things for different reasons. I'm not fond of the "freak" Venus Flytraps. I like Venus Flytraps that are hardy, healthy, vigorous, robust, and likely to survive if they had germinated in their natural environment. Traps that can't catch prey might look interesting, but the fact that they can't feed themselves causes me to lack much interest in them. But everyone has different tastes. I'm sure that the owner of the current champion in the "Ugliest Dog in the World" competition loves and beams with pride at his or her special pet. :smile:

Edited by FlytrapRanch
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If you feel it's a worthy plant then publish and register it as a cultivar, and if no one has registered that name then it's available for you to use.

 

I personally have no interest in registering a name of a Venus Flytrap as an official cultivar, because of one particular flaw in the named cultivar system: a plant is not required to be genetically identical to the original plant to be distributed under the same name. If a plant looks like a B52, under the named cultivar system, it can be called a B52 despite not being a clone of the original B52. That in my view is a serious flaw of the official named cultivar system.

 

So for me, a nickname, a name by which a genetically-unique clone is generally known and under which it is distributed, is more important than it being an official named cultivar. Just my opinion. :smile:

 

People may think that naming a plant is pretentious or presumptuous, but it can be useful and practical. I feel a little dismayed when reading about plants with confused histories, unclear provenance and multiple names, or several different clones distributed under the same name. I think it is probably good to make the name of a plant known to the community for which there might be continued interest over time, to help avoid the confusion that can arise from not having a particular, generally-agreed-upon name.

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I don't really understand all the hate towards the "SD Titan" plant. Yes, hate, as some posts can't be considered healthy skepticism.

 

It does seem that this discussion has triggered a few fairly powerful emotions that might have existed, rooted and grown before this topic appeared in the Forum. :smile: But from my point of view, that's OK. People need to feel free and comfortable enough to express themselves, even if doing so might cause a little temporary discomfort for themselves or others.

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, because of one particular flaw in the named cultivar system: a plant is not required to be genetically identical to the original plant to be distributed under the same name. If a plant looks like a B52, under the named cultivar system, it can be called a B52 despite not being a clone of the original B52. That in my view is a serious flaw of the official named cultivar system.

This opinion seems to crop up quite often - but it just isn't true.

It depends entirely on the individual cultivar description.

 

If the description says any plant with those features can be called this cultivar, then any can.

BUT, if the description says only vegetative propagation, to maintain the unique features - then only clones of that plant can be called that cultivar.

Nicknames offer no protection, as there is no law saying you can't give your plant (or dog) the same 'nickname' as another already existing.

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This opinion seems to crop up quite often - but it just isn't true.

It depends entirely on the individual cultivar description.

 

If the description says any plant with those features can be called this cultivar, then any can.

BUT, if the description says only vegetative propagation, to maintain the unique features - then only clones of that plant can be called that cultivar.

 

 

"It depends entirely on the individual cultivar description." -- No, it doesn't. Some of the cultivar descriptions say that the characteristics listed in the description appear to depend upon being genetically identical, but there is no restriction (that I know of) against labeling another, genetically-different plant with the same name if it happens to have the same characteristics.

 

For other cultivars that don't mention vegetative-propagation-only (for the sake of the characteristics, not a requisite of the name), anything goes. If your plant in your opinion resembles another plant halfway across the world that you've never seen or grown, you are free to call it the same name despite the fact that the name has been registered as an official cultivar.

 

Although various registries exist for different types of plants, isn't the International Carnivorous Plant Society the official registrar for Venus Flytraps and other carnivorous plants?

 

This is an important question. Phil, would you mind referring to or citing the source that makes you so confident or certain of your position?

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"It depends entirely on the individual cultivar description." -- No, it doesn't. Some of the cultivar descriptions say that the characteristics listed in the description appear to depend upon being genetically identical, but there is no restriction (that I know of) against labeling another, genetically-different plant with the same name if it happens to have the same characteristics.

 

For other cultivars that don't mention vegetative-propagation-only (for the sake of the characteristics, not a requisite of the name), anything goes. If your plant in your opinion resembles another plant halfway across the world that you've never seen or grown, you are free to call it the same name despite the fact that the name has been registered as an official cultivar.

 

Although various registries exist for different types of plants, isn't the International Carnivorous Plant Society the official registrar for Venus Flytraps and other carnivorous plants?

 

This is an important question. Phil, would you mind referring to or citing the source that makes you so confident or certain of your position?

 

I often think to that too... In my opinion, ALL cultivar MUST be reproduced vegetatively only, despite it is stated or not in the description. It should be a standard rule for every new registered cultivar, except if you are registering a "group name".

Look for example at what happened with S.l. Schnell's Ghost, where all green&white leucos with yellow flower, can be labeled in the same way... How many different' 'Schnell's Ghost' are in cultivation right now? :(

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