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fischermans

Seed grown Sarracenia have to be........

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Hello

What do you mean how to decide that a Sarracenia seed grown plant is a good or a bad one.What a

seed grown Sarracenia plant has to have or what is a sign for a bad plant?

Thanks for answering

Alexander

Edited by fischermans

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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so it really depends. I usually try to get the general public's opinion.

With Sarracenia, the general public has typically favored the following characteristics:

1) dark veins

2) contrasting colors (ie. white top, green body)

3) extreme red throats

4) shapely, symmetrical mouths and lids

5) clones that can produce huge or gigantic traps

6) weird mutants, like no lid, or anthocyanin free plants (although this is debatable, as some people hate them).

7) Bright white plants, or plants with more white than "normal"

8) solid, deep colors

9) unusual or unique shapes

It's also very dynamic, and one characteristic alone may not suffice to make a desirable plant. For example, if you produce the world's largest pitchers, but it has poor shape and dull colors, this might not make it as a desirable cultivar.

Here's some examples of a highly desirable cultivars. Haven't heard anyone dislike them, although I'd love to hear if anyone can come up with a reason why they're not worthy :)

S. x Legacy (Leah wilkerson x Adrian Slack)-great shape, large sized pitchers, unique edging around the lid, dark red throat, and bright white top:

13924478389_91efb6f3e8_h.jpg

S. flava 'Killer' Okaloosa Co, FL, extreme red thoat:

IMG_7977.jpg

S. leucophylla Hurricane creek white clone F-bright white color:

9993451253_6859daac44.jpg

S. x Elaine Wang-bright white top with contrasting bright red body is the key feature:

asjh8.jpg

S. x naczii, the bright red color is what makes this individual clone amazing. Not all S. x naczii's are desirable:

13924777368_e95d681ea0_c.jpg

S. x Tapestry: contrasting color, crystal clear dark veins, and symmetrical shape are key features:

9409460246_06f4dd9dab.jpg

Edited by meizwang
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Hello Mike and thanks for the reply.I agree with the most you have said and showed.Only the S. x naczii is not a great cultivar for me because it neither has the upright nor a pitcher like purpurea.It´s in-between and only red colour is not enough.

So may it´s better to ask."What is a reason for a cultivar that he´s not worse to grow.

Alexander

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I grow them for four or five years then make my mind up, but by then I feel I have invested  too much time in them and to be honest got a bit fond of most of them, besides which even the runt of the litter may hold some genes that will come good in future generations. So who can say what is good and what is bad.

 

If you like what you see grow them on, if not they make good presents for keen kids or people who love the idea of having or want a carnivorous plant, but you know will end up killing them.

 

Cheers

Steve

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Its not that I dont like them, I have a regard for them all, some more than others it must be said. Its the frustrating traits that get me down a little, such as slow growth, stunted growth, or pitchers that when you look at them you know would look an awful lot better if they were a bit bigger, redder or wider or had more aerolation, but these traits that we feel are dissapointing may well suit the plant just fine.

 

Take Sarracenia 'Bris' as an example, many people find this curiosity very appealing and absolutely love it, BUT there are people, dare I say, even in this forum who would round them all up build a bonfire and incimnerate every last one of them then spray the ashes with weed killer just to make sure.

 

So beauty is in the eye of the beer holder as the saying goes, all seeldling are created equal and should be given a chance, who knows the uglist one may have a magic hidden gene that in future generations unlocks a real beauty. So in answer, finally, to your question there is non that I personnaly dont like, just that I like some more than others, but there are many people who will discard most seedlings that do not meet the criterion of robust, fast growing and attactive as they are considered the most appealing and desirable attributes.

 

Cheers

Steve

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Hello Mike and thanks for the reply.I agree with the most you have said and showed.Only the S. x naczii is not a great cultivar for me because it neither has the upright nor a pitcher like purpurea.It´s in-between and only red colour is not enough.

So may it´s better to ask."What is a reason for a cultivar that he´s not worse to grow.

Alexander

That is actually rather typical for S. naczii, and that plant isn't a cultivar but might be used to breed one or more.  Also, that is a S. rosea hybrid, BTW.  That is why it doesn't look like a S. catesbaei, which is a purpurea hybrid.  This hybrid is featured on the cover _The Savage Garden_ which mistakenly listed it as a S. catesbaei.

Edited by Dave Evans
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Thank you Steve and Dave.

@Dave

I still don´t like plants like S.naczii because of the shape of the tube.But it´s only my subjective taste.So here is my list for why is a seed grown plant not worse to hold.Remember it´s only me. :-)

1) The pitcher is neither upright like flava or leucophylla nor a pitcher like purpurea has

2) The pitcher is nearly like flava but has a hump because purpurea is in the cross

3) The lid is too small or too big compared to the rest of the pitcher

4) The plant is a very slow grower

5) The color is not unusual

6) All pitcher has a deformed mouth

7) All pitchers are a bit deformed with little areas which looks dented

8) The red color looks much more brown

Thats it for the moment.

Alexander

Edited by fischermans
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With those strict criteria, your gonna have a very small collection of Sarra.

 

Most plants are either Green or Red, so those aren't unusual and can't go in your collection.

Those with areas of White are also common, so again can't be in your collection.

And because you don't like brown

 

That doesn't leave much!

 

I agree that too many plants are 'deformed'. But even some of these can have interesting traits, which can be used for breeding other good plants.

 

So how about showing us photo's of what you do like.

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With those strict criteria, your gonna have a very small collection of Sarra.

 

Most plants are either Green or Red, so those aren't unusual and can't go in your collection.

Those with areas of White are also common, so again can't be in your collection.

And because you don't like brown

 

That doesn't leave much!

 

I agree that too many plants are 'deformed'. But even some of these can have interesting traits, which can be used for breeding other good plants.

 

So how about showing us photo's of what you do like.

Hello Phil

First off all I´m talking about hybrids.Thats may not clear in my former post.Sorry.So there are a lot of plants which can be in my collection.

What I mean is if you got for example a moorei and the tube is not big and not spectacular in color nor in any other point then there is no reason to keep this plant.There are enough great moorei plants.On the other hand when you got a plant from a cross which has normal color and everything else is also normal but it´s a very vigorous plant then it´s worth to keep.

Regards Alexander

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It's in the eye of the beholder and the remarks of Billynomates666 are very pertinent. For me an important point point is that S. flava has the most beautiful shape and size of pitchers and S. leucophylla the best colourations. Optimal hybrids should harmoniously combine the qualities of these two species. I also love strong blotches in the throat and I hate plants with strange and abnormal shapes of pitchers (upright lids looks un-natural and truly ugly to me).

Edited by Cedric-666
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Hello Cedric-666 and thanks for your answer and yes you are right, it´s always in the eye of the beholder.I also like plants with a strong blotch and I also don´t like plants with strange and abnormal shapes of pitchers and yes upright lids looks un-natural and truly ugly to me too.

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@meizwang   "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

 

Sorry this is off topic, but mate, beauty is in your photos. They are some of the nicest Sarracenia photo's I've ever seen. 

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Guest paul y

@meizwang   "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

 

Sorry this is off topic, but mate, beauty is in your photos. They are some of the nicest Sarracenia photo's I've ever seen. 

I agree completely, they are just stunning,  if at any point divisions are available or if you have or will have seed with these plants as parents please consider selling me some, im in the process of starting a huge seed run and im looking for as much diversity as possible

regards paul

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Here are a few seedlings which in are worth to keep in my eyes.

Alexander

Edited by fischermans
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I'm with everyone else that its an "eye of the beholder" thing. You also have to be careful not to "convince" yourself your seed grown is special just because youve put lots of time and effort into them.

Ive grown out a lot of sarracenia seedlings but ive only found a few that were nice enough for me to think "Wow...these are beautiful!" but I'm well aware not all people will think the same thing.

For example, here's a seed grown xMoorei. I think its awesome with its thick, waxy pitchers that last all season. I love how the pitchers start out rubricorpora-ish then turn into a dark maroon as they age. It doesnt have a splotch on the throat and I think that would turn some off.

DSCF5072_zpsb5ed87ec.jpg

DSCF5073_zps55194284.jpg

Then there is this hybrid that always makes a crooked peristome...a mutant, I guess. I love the bright yellow in contrast with the deep red veing and throat and the wavy, veiny hood just blows me away. Others might not like it as much as I do.

DSCF5078_zps337ba3e0.jpg

Its really all about what you like and the feedback you receive on the plant as Mike said.

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I like #3 and LOVE #6. All are beautiful hybrids though.

Here are a few seedlings which in are worth to keep in my eyes.

Alexander

Edited by Defalotus

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Hi Alex,

I like the Legacy clone from Mike. The coloration looks very punctuated and elegant as it was drawn by a painter. The colors are soft and not too shiny but very intense. I like the contast between the red and white. Also the pitcher form looks very symetric.

Finally, I mostly like the typicals from a certain location as them mother earth has created. Seed grown plants are intersting for me if you want to combine specific genes in order to get a planned result.

Edited by wwoehrle

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@meizwang   "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

 

Sorry this is off topic, but mate, beauty is in your photos. They are some of the nicest Sarracenia photo's I've ever seen.

Thanks for the compliment, and glad you like them!

Defalotus: You definitely have some winners in the lot! Rob Co showed me some plants you sent him, and they are really quality clones, great work!

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