Veek Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I just googled it and on the ICPS website it says that there are only 2 registered Cephalotus cultivars Eden Balck and Hummer's Giant: http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cultivars/names.php?name=Cephalotus but I remember that there was one added last year: Cephalotus follicularis ‘Clayton’s T Rex’ http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cpn/Species/v42n4p145_152.html As far as I know Dudley Watts ain't a cultivar. Where did you see this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) Veek , really didn't know it was so easy to look up , ? had no need ever to do so over here . I seen it on Ebay some time ago , from some guy in UK , dont know who it is as we dont deal with EU or UK Ebay, cause we cant get plants into AU shipped or posted so dont bother to look much ,here is the plant i found by accident a while back http://www.ebay.co.u...=STRK:MEBIDX:IT Edited March 3, 2014 by snapperhead51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Morning chaps and lady chaps, I would like to ask is C.f Dudley Watts is cultivar? Maybe it is newly registered as cultivar but I didn't know that. Does somebody know that story? Thanks Yes, I published it in the recent Planta Carnivora. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) AAhh so that is you Stephen, so what is Planta carnivora, a registration place for cultivars is it , , veek said it was ICPS ?? so is there more than one place to reg a plant at ?? just as interest only interesting to read this , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultivar Edited March 3, 2014 by snapperhead51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Planta Carnivora is the CPS journal and newsletter. It is published but not yet registered, the ICPS remains the registration authority but you can publish anywhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcel van den Broek Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) No, there is only one place you can register a cultivar of a carnivorous plant and that is the ICPS. "Dudley Watts" is NOT a cultivar at this point. However, Stephen has completed a very important step in the process as it all beging with a (valid) publication. AS you can see here http://www.carnivoro...ltivarsmain.php it is a 2 step process. Now the form needs to be filled out and processed. @Stephen, did you send the form to Jan yet? edit: it seems Stephen and I where writing at the same time.... Edited March 3, 2014 by Marcel van den Broek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) I see, so if you publish a plant then you can call it a cultivar with out registration then right ?? is that how it works !! Ahh ok thanks for the explanation Marcel , interesting process Edited March 3, 2014 by snapperhead51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Generally once it is published it is a cultivar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) Double Edited March 3, 2014 by gardenofeden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcel van den Broek Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Also there was a question about the cultivar Clayton submitted. The list on the home page is not yet updated with the cultivars registered in 2013. The March edition of CPN actually has a list of all registered cultivars that were processed in 2013: Cultivar names registered in 2013 Cephalotus ‘Clayton’s T Rex’ C.Clayton, Carniv.Pl.Newslett.42:145 (2013) 26.Dec. Cephalotus ‘Donna’s Destiny’ C.Clayton, Cephalotus Teratol.Abnorm.L.:21 (2011) 11.Jun. Cephalotus ‘Tina’s Hallelujah Trumpets’ C.Clayton, Cephalotus Teratol.Abnorm.L.:22 (2011) 11.Jun. Cephalotus ‘Jason’s Arks’ C.Clayton, Cephalotus Teratol.Abnorm.L.:23 (2011) 11.Jun. As you can see there is some growth in the cultivar market, which might just have prompted Richard's article (For the record, the ICPS grants registered cultivar status to every plant that passes through the registration process and meets its criteria. Those criteria are set by the International Society for Horticultural Science (ISHS). That doesn't mean we have an offical opinion on any specific plants, just that they made it through the prescribed procedure) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcel van den Broek Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Generally once it is published it is a cultivar. Not exactly. Technically it may not be called that as the process is only half completed. Basically everybody can still call a plant Dudley Watts untill that name is formally linked to your description and appears on the register. If someone else would try to register it, we would look at the publication and deny the application based on your publication but legally everybody can still use the name in common trade untill you register. Consider it like a patent. Of course it would be very bad form to highjack a name, but legally there is no barrier untll the process is completed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 great thanks , for many it may make things for better understanding of process and on going processes . never been involved in any of this , never had the need to in our little part of the world . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I believe you are incorrect Marcel. Only publication is required to establish any cultivar name. Registration is sensible, but it does not affect the validity of a cultivar as publication date is the most important data which would establish precedence in the event of a query. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapperhead51 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 hhmmm crikey !, that's just confusing now !! may be rule book needed ?/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcel van den Broek Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I'm not so sure Stephen. Of course I try to keep things simple in this posts (for the technical details of this Jan would be the best source as I only know the basics. That is why he's the registar and not me) but basically what I find in literature is that publication is sometimes but not always enough to have a cultivar named. There are a lot (and I do mean a lot) of details that can screw this up which is why the offical registration was invented in the first place. Mu advise is that it is always the best option to be sure (and once you have done the publication filling out the form will take no time at all and it's not like the ICPS is getting any money out of it...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcel van den Broek Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I'm not so sure Stephen. Of course I try to keep things simple in this posts (for the technical details of this Jan would be the best source as I only know the basics. That is why he's the registar and not me) but basically what I find in literature is that publication is sometimes but not always enough to have a cultivar named. There are a lot (and I do mean a lot) of details that can screw this up which is why the offical registration was invented in the first place. Mu advise is that it is always the best option to be sure (and once you have done the publication filling out the form will take no time at all and it's not like the ICPS is getting any money out of it...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 yes, I agree, always best to go through the established procedure, but technically.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcel van den Broek Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I'll try and see if I can get Jan to expand our cultivar registration text on our website with some of the questions that frequently pop up. May take some time but as cultivars and their status is a reoccuring theme on this forum I think it would be a useful thing to do . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitar Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Thank you all for the participation. It was really useful. But still didn't get how I can call my plant C.f. Dudley Watts - cultivar or still not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 So what happens to all those whom already have C.f. "Dudley Watts" clones after cultivar registration? I suspect there will be fakes going around already, so how does one go about distinguishing between these and the registered cultivar? Indeed, what are the unique characteristics of "Dudley Watts" that make it distinguishable from any other Cephalotus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) Dimitar, yes it is a cultivar. Jan tells me that Planta Carnivora published cultivars are automatically registered anyway. Even if it was not registered, as soon as it is published it is a cultivar. Mobile: no different to any other cultivar of any other genus....go by the official description and get it from a trusted source who can trace it back to originator. Time is the only judge of a good cultivar. If they are no good they will not persist .... Edited March 3, 2014 by gardenofeden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veek Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 So what happens to all those whom already have C.f. "Dudley Watts" clones after cultivar registration? My thoughts to ... once it has its cultivar registration then what do people have to call their Dudley Watts? I got mine from Jens B who got it from Stephen so I might be "safe" to still call it Dudley Watts. People who cannot trace it back to Stephen they cannot call it Dudley Watts then? I don't think this is fair. Then why not give it a new cultivar name instead of using a clone name that has been used for many years already? Just to avoid to confusion for starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriomix Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I am of the opinion that the cultivars should be the only wild plants with the name of the location clones only plants with mutations or diversity (found in other crops) and the rest of all the typical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimitar Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Erio, the location plants, no need registration and they are NOT cultivars and they will never be cultivars . They don't have notions like " black" or Giant" they are just what they are. All what is needed it contains in their names and their genes and it is not necessary they get other foolish names. As if I want to register my plants from Two Peoples Bay area or Coal mine beach - to register them like what? This is more than unserious. Koen, If it is given new name It would appear the same mess as Hummer's giant, I'm afraid. What would happen with those who have it before the registration? How they will call it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I am of the opinion that cultivars should have distinct characteristics, that are easily identifiable, and that can be readily replicated by other growers in most or all typical growing conditions. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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