It´s just not the real thing!


Guest Andreas Eils

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Guest Andreas Eils

Hello all,

I have obtained seeds of Drosera sessilifolia from an actual reputable source last year. I was thinking if someone has the genuine stuff, the REAL THING so to say, it must be that guy.

But apperently I was wrong. I don´t blame the person who sold the seeds. We´ve talked about the problem and it appears that he has been fooled as well.

Well, after a lot of searching and investigating on the web I think there are very few people who in fact grow Drosera sessilifolia. A lot so called D. sessilifolia must be D. burmannii or even a hybrid between D. sessilifolia and D. burmannii. :ohmy:

I consider those plants D. sessilifolia I know from habitat pictures of Fernando Rivadavia and Thomas Carow. The laminae are significantly more roundish than those of D. burmannii and the petioles are shorter and broader. The laminae of the latter look more triangular. Another thing is the flowers. I don´t have a photo of the flower of my fake D. sessilifolia unfortunately as I didn´t have a camera when a plant flowered. But a next scape seems to appear. This is the reference I compared my flowers with: http://www.carnivorousplants.org/howto/GrowingGuides/D_burmannii.php They clearly resembled the picture of the Burmannii flower on that page although my flowers didn´t open properly... :(

Well, here are latest pictures of what I´ve grown from the D. sessilifolia seeds:

gallery_1944_362_267675.jpg

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So, this is Drosera burmannii, right?

A nice form of D. burmannii without doubt but it doesn´t make you happy when you originally wanted something else. :wink:

To avoid starting another topic for only three pictures I go on with something completely different. ;-)

Some time ago I knew of a discussion how tall Drosera scorpioides can get in cultivation. My personal record so far is: 23 cm. :D But I think this season will be the last for this bunch of plants!

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I don´t know it´s not a very pretty sight anymore, is it? I think the last plants will die during this year anyway. They are four years old now and the substrate has never been changed.

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The trap leaves are very small at the moment. Would be an interesting experiment to let them grow naturally where the stems bend down to the ground from a certain length and only the tip with fresh leaves is held upright. But you need a comparatively large container (or a bed) for that and I lack space!

Finally the only flower(s) which have been open yesterday. :)

gallery_1944_362_52074.jpg

Drosera platystigma "A"

Bye bye, bye bye, bye byyyeeeee... :wink:

Andreas

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Stop threatening me! :-D I have got a D. sessilifolia "Chapada dos Guimaraes, Brazil" and it looks exactly like yours. I did not pay much attention to the flowers i must say, since i thought that with the location data and with the significantly different appearance from D. burmanii, it is the real thing.

The dichotomous key to the genus Drosera says: Leaves obovate, longer than 12 mm, stigmata dichotomously divided: D. sessilifolia

Leaves cuneate, shorter than 12 mm, stigmata flabellately multifid: D. burmannii

I do not see any clear difference in stigmata on the photos on the page on your link, but i will pay attention to my plants when they will flower again.

What about differences in seed appearance? Does anybody know, if there are any? I have checked Diels`s monograph and it did not help me... I really hope that someone will put together a better monograph on Drosera soon. Something like Taylor`s Utricularia or the new Genlisea monograph from Andreas.

Adam

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Hello Andreas, last year I received some seeds of D. sessilifolia a friend, and taking into account that it is a researcher, I believe that they are the right kind. After about 2 months, they germinate and despite the development of these shy, I can say that they are going well.

I also have some seedlings of D. burmannii originating from the seeds of an invasive plant that came on my vessel U. calycifida, and at first glance I did not notice any difference between them, but as time went by I noticed that burmannii grow faster than sessilifolia, at least in my culture, not to falra in more compact form of the second compared with the first.

Below I leave photos of two plants:

The left is D. burmannii right and D. sessilifolia

8589787224_a1ce07b593_n.jpg8589787448_bdb17accfa_n.jpg

I just ask you to forgive the poor quality of the photos, as well as not being a good photographer, my camera does not have a macro function.

Note:

1) As I understand your story, you hoped to identify this CP for the flowers, but I think this is not a good idea. The confusion surrounding these two plants is such that use such a method to identify them proves unfeasible, since there are some varieties of D. burmannii which has pink flowers.

If this will help you to resolve all your doubts, take a look at the ICPS report on the imbroglio involving these two CPs contained in the link below:

Growing Drosera burmannii and D. sessilifolia

2) Their D. scorpioides are very beautiful, congratulations for their efforts in the hobby. Then we need to talk, since that would give me some tips on cultivation of this species, because I have here seems to have stalled development :confused: .

Best regards,

Rodrigo

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Guest Andreas Eils

Hello Adam & Rodrigo,

thanks for your replies. As long as my seedlings have been juvenile I haven´t had any bad feelings about my D. sessilifolia. Leaves looked "obovate" like Adam wrote. :wink: I also grow two varities of D. burmannii right next to them: a pure green form and the red "Humpty Doo". Well, the red form already looks noticeably different from the green form. But the green form looks completely the same as my "Sessilifolia" - except the colouration - since my "Sessilies" are mature. :( The shape of the leaves is absolutely identical, and the flowers behave and look also very identical. And that made me sceptical.

I have sighted all available photos of D. sessilifolia in the wild, none of them looks like my "Sessilies". I read a lot about both species shall be hard to differentiate and so on. Okay, but does it mean they can be almost impossible to differentiate?

Hehe, you see, I´m another lost seeker for certainty! :laugh:

Please, Rodrigo, post pictures of your "Sessilies" when they are mature. Maybe this will help a little further.

Erm...the link you posted, Rodrigo, is exactly the same I did in my first post. ;-) So, the ICPS page is my reference.

As for D. scorpioides: It´s usually an easy to grow pygmy sundew. But I have experienced you can have trouble in very warm summers if you keep them wet. I have seen many plants die in wet soil during summer. I keep them only a little damp from June to August/middle of September. And start increasing moisture slowly from middle of September. From October I keep them moist/wet at the normal level (rainy season). :)

Apart from that I never had difficulties in growing D. scorpioides and keeping them for three to four years.

Kind regards

Andreas

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The problem is also that there seem to exist fertile hybrids between both species.

Some time ago i have sown out 4-5 years old seed which i had totally forgotten in the fridge, i was very surprised that it germinated after such a long time. Hopefully they are true D. sessilifolia but in the moment they are still too small to identify them.

Best regards,

Dani

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It's not easy telling them apart for sure. Keep in mind that sessilifolia has erect scapes with pink-lilac flowers. Most burmannii are ascending and white...

Fernando

Edited by Fernando Rivadavia
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  • 1 year later...

Almost a year after the very last posting, behold here return to resurrect the subject matter hereof and news:

 

D. burmannii "Hong Kong" (left) and D. sessilifolia (right)

 

14176853762_b491deca48_n.jpg14179506925_1f2ce27915_n.jpg

 

Most D. sessilifolia i have in my cultivation and its flowering stem

 

13992877507_0d3ce20a48_n.jpg14179507525_e19c1048cd_n.jpg

 

So, can see the difference at each other?

 

Best regards,

 

Rodrigo

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The dichotomous key to the genus Drosera says: Leaves obovate, longer than 12 mm, stigmata dichotomously divided: D. sessilifolia

Leaves cuneate, shorter than 12 mm, stigmata flabellately multifid: D. burmannii

Adam

Hello, that doesn't make sense to me.  D. burmannii is the larger of the two.

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So the differences between D. burmannii and D. sessilifolia and effectively the same as the differences between D. venusta and D. natalensis???

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hmmm, not sure the stigmata are different...

 

Although D.burmannii may be larger in cultivation, in the wild D.sessilifolia can get quite large too. It's a mystery to me why D.sessilifolia is so small in cultivation...

 

 

Fernando

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I'll see if i can take a photo in macro flowers of my plants and then post here for comparison, because then we can take this matter closed.

 

Best regards,

 

Rodrigo

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By your comments i deduce that this is due to the possibility of hybrids between the two species, correct?

 

Best regards,

 

Rodrigo

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Hmmm, not sure the stigmata are different...

 

Although D.burmannii may be larger in cultivation, in the wild D.sessilifolia can get quite large too. It's a mystery to me why D.sessilifolia is so small in cultivation...

 

 

Fernando

Could this be an example of the "Founder's Effect"?

A super small sample of the species was collected and what we now have in cultivation poorly represents the wild versions of the species?

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Burmanni are not neccisarily larger, their are 2 pygmy burmanni colonies in North QLD that I know of, the plants attain a size of 1-1.5cm diameter, then flower (infor average 4-6cm, flowers 3-4mm) then they die off, to attain this size in cultivation takes anywhere from 2-5months, I have grown the pygmy strain since 2012 and they have never reached the 2cm mark, every other feature about them is identical to typical burmanni.

 

Both colonies live at the top (and higher reaches) of 2 fairly large waterfalls, at the base of the falls and in a 4-5km radious (I have not bothered to look further but past this point is rainforest so I doubt there are any for quite a while) their are no other burmanni growing, they seem confined to the top of the falls where they grow with D.lunata and D.peltata, as well as U.caerula and one pop with the odd D.adelae.

 

After 4-5generations their has been no reversion to a typical form in my collection.

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Some photos of D. sessilifolia (Natal - RN, Brazil) in situ:

 

13994891418_251eb92916_c.jpg

 

13994870039_b032f4eaf8_c.jpg

 

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10259390_392685307539070_786151083348132

 

Apparently what differentiates a plant from another are minimal, so in my view destalhes, the impasse continues ...

 

Best regards,

 

Rodrigo

 

Source: All photos posted here were taken from page 10 of the topic Lagoon of Natal contained in Fórum Carnívoras.

Edited by Rodrigo
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Ah, I can see the differences now.  D. sessilifolia resembles somewhat D. slackii.  While D. burmannii more resembles D. glanduligera.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dave, D.sessilifolia has been introduced to cultivation multiple times, but I have never seen anyone grow this as large as the wild parents.

 

As for appearances, sessilifolia resembles burmannii and vice-versa, LOL. They're not too closely related to anyone else in the genus, at least not as much as they are to each other.

 

The differences boil down to leaf shape, flower color, and base of the scape erect X ascending.

 

Fernando

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