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D. communis


jimscott

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This species exists in practically all of Brazil, but it is difficult to culture and its seeds have a very low viability :thumbsdown: .

I congratulate him by the fact getting growing this carnivorous plant, because it is with a great look :thanks: . The proof of such dedication to the hobby is the fact that it bloom :woot: .

Best Regards,

Rodrigo

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So I asked the hobbyist who sent it to me:

"Hey Jim,

I'm so sorry! I'm beginning to get accustomed to this too. It seems like everything is lumped into either D. spatulata or D. natalensis. I received some D. ultramafica as well and apparently they are either D. spatulata or a hybrid with a parent being D. spatulata.

I received the D. cummunis from ... They were freshly out of tissue culture when I received them. I honestly haven't paid them much attention since they've settled in. I appreciate you bringing it to my attention."

So then I asked the one who sent the plant to above hobbyist:

"Hey Jim,

Sounds good, thanks.

Lovely flowers! From what I understand, they're actually a form of D. capillaris (if you got them from ..., who got them from me (I think)). Otherwise, if they don't have any other info (they should be D. communis var. breviscapa if they're the D. capillaris), they're probably the real deal.

In any case, they should be self-fertile and shouldn't require self-pollination."

The Photofinder is an excellent tool. The pictures aren't always conclusive.. some of mine are in there, so we know it isn't perfect!

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Unfortunately, seed of common species often contaminate the pots where the rare seed were sown, then people assume that what came up was the rare species without trying to confirm. It should be the responsibility of the people growing the plants to confirm what they have *BEFORE* distributing plants/ seeds.

With all the forums out there and tools you can find with a simple Google search, you don't need to be a taxonomist to ID your plants in most cases.

Best wishes,

Fernando

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]Lovely flowers! From what I understand, they're actually a form of D. capillaris (if you got them from ..., who got them from me (I think)). Otherwise, if they don't have any other info (they should be D. communis var. breviscapa if they're the D. capillaris), they're probably the real deal.

In any case, they should be self-fertile and shouldn't require self-pollination."[/b]

BTW, it is not difficult to distinguish D.capillaris from D.spatulata, just look at the seed.

Furthermore, a quick look at Jan Schlauer's CP Database (http://www.omnisterr...bot/cp_home.cgi) will quickly tell you that D.communis var.breviscapa is an old name for a D.capillaris from Cuba. I don't know how this name could possibly still be circulating after 100+ years... :-P

Use the available tools, people!!! Or do you think I have all this stuff memorized??? :)

Best wishes,

Fernando

Edited by Fernando Rivadavia
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I looked at the Photofinder and checked both D. communis and the reference to D.capillaris. The best and clearest pictures of adult D. communis look different from one another, particularly with respect to the width of the leaves.

drosera_communis.jpg

marcommunis.jpg

070223droseracommunis16tx6.jpg

The D. capillaris pic is this one:

DcapillarisDbrevifoliaIbiraquera1.jpg

Except for the lack of color on my plant, the first photo from the Photofinder looks the same. The Photofinder is a great resource, no doubt. But between my lack of ID skills and the differences I do see in the pictures, I really have a hard time distinguishing one from another.

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Dear Fernando and Jim, you're both very right. Of course one should use the tools available to them. But when the ID's on the "tool" are FUBAR'ed, as per Jim, you can't rely on them. Or you'll be spreading misformation yourself.

Please note: These plants are not _Drosera communis_:

http://www.biolib.cz.../?taxonid=62524

http://www.carnivoro...ra_communis.jpg

http://www.triffidpa..._d_communis.jpg

http://mbcarnivorous...ra communis.JPG

But these are:

http://www.carnivora...is-Amalfi-1.jpg thru

http://www.carnivora...is-Amalfi-6.jpg thru

http://www.carnivora..._Mojarra-10.jpg

http://www.carnivora...06-2004-p3.htmlhttp://users.humbold...elheiros 04.jpg

http://www.grislygro...marcommunis.jpg

When you know you're looking at real D. c., you can get a better idea about it. Note D. communis has short red stipules, a very long flower stem that first bends away from the rosette and then ascends. The hairy petioles are long and distinct from the lamia. These characteristics can be used to rule out D. natalensis (white stipules, glands and different hairs on the flower stems), D. capillaris (white stipules, ascending but more erect than D. communis rather glabrous flower stems), D. spathulata[/i] (ascending-erect and shorter flower stem, petiole and lamina somewhat indistinct), D. sp. bremen (mostly glabrous, white stipules, glabrous flower stems).

In this shot, the wider greener rosettes with the white flower buds are D. brevifolia. In this season, the D. b. are a bit more robust than the usually larger D. capillaris:

http://i134.photobuc...Ibiraquera1.jpg

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Thanks, Dave! What I have doesn't look like what you've pointed out. Even I can see that. So is what I have the D. capillaris hybrid? (communis var. breviscapa)

This is why I really like the coined, tongue and cheek phrase, "D. roundandstickia". What I would really like is to have CP botanist come over and personally fix the ID's! Dave,.... are ya visiting Western NY anytime soon....

Edited by jimscott
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Use the available tools, people!!! Or do you think I have all this stuff memorized??? :)

yes, i do! Please don't disappoint me ;)

The photofinder is great, but you have to check the ids of the pictures first before you try to id your plants from the pictures there. There are a lot of wrongly labeled pictures around (maybe even from myself!?), which makes it hard to identify plants from them. Also, the differences are very often not so easy to spot if you are not really familiar with the plants and the possible alternatives. It's always a good id to make sure, the source of the picture you are looking at is a good one. Saddly, this can be quite complicated if only links to the actual file are posted instead of the page the picture is used in.

Christian

Edited by Christian
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Yes, for example Sebastian Vieira's photo of "D. spatulata" clearly show D. dielsiana with the glands on the flower bud and stem, and the styles divided at the base.

http://www.carnivora...itro-Flower.jpg

from

http://www.carnivoras-la.org/new/

Here a shot of a D. spathulata flower:

http://www.cobraplan...s/Dfraser_3.jpg

D. capillaris flowers are rather similar to those of D. dielsiana, but the flower buds and stems are not covered by small traps and are mostly glabrous. The petals often have conspicuous veins.

Edited by Dave Evans
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Hi Christian, what did I dyslexically switch around? Where are some line drawings? All I can find are line drawings of South African species...

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Jim: I say you have spatulata.

Anyone else who cares: Yes CP Photofinder is not definitive for sure. But usually you can get a sense for which are right and which are wrong by simply looking at a large number of pictures. And as somebody mentioned above, source of pics is also very important.

In the case of communis, just google where it's from (S.America), then look at which pics show this in the wild versus the ones that show it in cultivation. Usually the former are correct.

And then - GASP!! - there's the option of actually googling the botanical literature!!! :) Such as this one I published in CPN a few years ago which has pics and drawings of D.communis, comparing it to D.viridis:

http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cpn/Species/v32n3p79_92.html

Or simply post pics here on CPUK, and everybody can give their 2 cents and have some fun while we do that. ;-)

Best wishes,

Fernando

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Hi Dave,

i don't know where you can look at line drawings, but i am sure, that D. spatulata can have glands on the flower bud. The way the spend flower bud closes in Sebastian's picture looks typical for D. spatulata to me. The flowers can have divided stigmas as well as undivided. Almost all Drosera species from South Africa (and many of the ones, that might be an alternative here), that i can right now think of do have divided styles at the base. Just by this you are ruling D. spatulata out and you say it clearly(!) is D. dielsiana, a species that is amlost not in cultivation at the moment. I will happilly accept, that i am wrong if you can prove me, that the plant above really is something different than D. spatulata ;)

Here are two bad and old pictures of my plants:

spatulata_DROS2T1_005.jpg

spatulata_DROS2T1_020.jpg

Christian

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Well Christian, this is a bit of a quandary... Are the plants we now calling D. venusta really D. natalensis? While the plants we're calling "natalensis" actually being D. dielsiana?

The styles are supposed to divide again in D. natalensis, correct?

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Don't laugh, but I was also given seeds of D. communis, separate and distinct from the plant originally posted. The seeds just started germinating this week. Stay tuned for pictures... later this year!

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The seed of D. communis looks totally different in comparison to D. spatulata and most others.

Do you remember how the seed looked like, was it more elongated similar to for example D. grantsaui, D. adelae or D. capensis?

Than you can be sure you have the right seed this time. And if it wouldn´t have germinated after a longer time it would have also been D. communis, because the seed of this species is only viable for a very short time, not comparable to other species.

Best regards,

Dani

Edited by Daniel O.
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