jimscott Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Do I need to hand-pollinate these flowers? Do I need flowers from 2 different plants to produce viable seeds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodrigo Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 This species exists in practically all of Brazil, but it is difficult to culture and its seeds have a very low viability . I congratulate him by the fact getting growing this carnivorous plant, because it is with a great look . The proof of such dedication to the hobby is the fact that it bloom . Best Regards, Rodrigo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimscott Posted January 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 I have it growing a terrarium setting. apparently, it like the conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Rivadavia Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 I'm sorry to be the one to tell you that this is not D.communis, but D.spatulata.... :-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimscott Posted January 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 I KNEW you were going to say that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Rivadavia Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 All you had to do was go on the CP Photofinder and compare. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimscott Posted January 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 So I asked the hobbyist who sent it to me: "Hey Jim, I'm so sorry! I'm beginning to get accustomed to this too. It seems like everything is lumped into either D. spatulata or D. natalensis. I received some D. ultramafica as well and apparently they are either D. spatulata or a hybrid with a parent being D. spatulata. I received the D. cummunis from ... They were freshly out of tissue culture when I received them. I honestly haven't paid them much attention since they've settled in. I appreciate you bringing it to my attention." So then I asked the one who sent the plant to above hobbyist: "Hey Jim, Sounds good, thanks. Lovely flowers! From what I understand, they're actually a form of D. capillaris (if you got them from ..., who got them from me (I think)). Otherwise, if they don't have any other info (they should be D. communis var. breviscapa if they're the D. capillaris), they're probably the real deal. In any case, they should be self-fertile and shouldn't require self-pollination." The Photofinder is an excellent tool. The pictures aren't always conclusive.. some of mine are in there, so we know it isn't perfect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Rivadavia Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Unfortunately, seed of common species often contaminate the pots where the rare seed were sown, then people assume that what came up was the rare species without trying to confirm. It should be the responsibility of the people growing the plants to confirm what they have *BEFORE* distributing plants/ seeds. With all the forums out there and tools you can find with a simple Google search, you don't need to be a taxonomist to ID your plants in most cases. Best wishes, Fernando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Rivadavia Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) ]Lovely flowers! From what I understand, they're actually a form of D. capillaris (if you got them from ..., who got them from me (I think)). Otherwise, if they don't have any other info (they should be D. communis var. breviscapa if they're the D. capillaris), they're probably the real deal.In any case, they should be self-fertile and shouldn't require self-pollination."[/b] BTW, it is not difficult to distinguish D.capillaris from D.spatulata, just look at the seed. Furthermore, a quick look at Jan Schlauer's CP Database (http://www.omnisterr...bot/cp_home.cgi) will quickly tell you that D.communis var.breviscapa is an old name for a D.capillaris from Cuba. I don't know how this name could possibly still be circulating after 100+ years... :-P Use the available tools, people!!! Or do you think I have all this stuff memorized??? :) Best wishes, Fernando Edited January 28, 2013 by Fernando Rivadavia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimscott Posted January 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 I looked at the Photofinder and checked both D. communis and the reference to D.capillaris. The best and clearest pictures of adult D. communis look different from one another, particularly with respect to the width of the leaves. The D. capillaris pic is this one: Except for the lack of color on my plant, the first photo from the Photofinder looks the same. The Photofinder is a great resource, no doubt. But between my lack of ID skills and the differences I do see in the pictures, I really have a hard time distinguishing one from another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 Dear Fernando and Jim, you're both very right. Of course one should use the tools available to them. But when the ID's on the "tool" are FUBAR'ed, as per Jim, you can't rely on them. Or you'll be spreading misformation yourself. Please note: These plants are not _Drosera communis_: http://www.biolib.cz.../?taxonid=62524 http://www.carnivoro...ra_communis.jpg http://www.triffidpa..._d_communis.jpg http://mbcarnivorous...ra communis.JPG But these are: http://www.carnivora...is-Amalfi-1.jpg thru http://www.carnivora...is-Amalfi-6.jpg thru http://www.carnivora..._Mojarra-10.jpg http://www.carnivora...06-2004-p3.htmlhttp://users.humbold...elheiros 04.jpg http://www.grislygro...marcommunis.jpg When you know you're looking at real D. c., you can get a better idea about it. Note D. communis has short red stipules, a very long flower stem that first bends away from the rosette and then ascends. The hairy petioles are long and distinct from the lamia. These characteristics can be used to rule out D. natalensis (white stipules, glands and different hairs on the flower stems), D. capillaris (white stipules, ascending but more erect than D. communis rather glabrous flower stems), D. spathulata[/i] (ascending-erect and shorter flower stem, petiole and lamina somewhat indistinct), D. sp. bremen (mostly glabrous, white stipules, glabrous flower stems). In this shot, the wider greener rosettes with the white flower buds are D. brevifolia. In this season, the D. b. are a bit more robust than the usually larger D. capillaris: http://i134.photobuc...Ibiraquera1.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimscott Posted January 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Thanks, Dave! What I have doesn't look like what you've pointed out. Even I can see that. So is what I have the D. capillaris hybrid? (communis var. breviscapa) This is why I really like the coined, tongue and cheek phrase, "D. roundandstickia". What I would really like is to have CP botanist come over and personally fix the ID's! Dave,.... are ya visiting Western NY anytime soon.... Edited January 31, 2013 by jimscott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Use the available tools, people!!! Or do you think I have all this stuff memorized??? :) yes, i do! Please don't disappoint me ;) The photofinder is great, but you have to check the ids of the pictures first before you try to id your plants from the pictures there. There are a lot of wrongly labeled pictures around (maybe even from myself!?), which makes it hard to identify plants from them. Also, the differences are very often not so easy to spot if you are not really familiar with the plants and the possible alternatives. It's always a good id to make sure, the source of the picture you are looking at is a good one. Saddly, this can be quite complicated if only links to the actual file are posted instead of the page the picture is used in. Christian Edited January 30, 2013 by Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Yes, for example Sebastian Vieira's photo of "D. spatulata" clearly show D. dielsiana with the glands on the flower bud and stem, and the styles divided at the base. http://www.carnivora...itro-Flower.jpg from http://www.carnivoras-la.org/new/ Here a shot of a D. spathulata flower: http://www.cobraplan...s/Dfraser_3.jpg D. capillaris flowers are rather similar to those of D. dielsiana, but the flower buds and stems are not covered by small traps and are mostly glabrous. The petals often have conspicuous veins. Edited January 31, 2013 by Dave Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabricio de Oliveira Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 This photo isn't communniis. Looks lake a sphathulata. This is real D. comunniis native of Goias State -Brazil from 3 different locations Wilds In my grow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Hi Dave, I don't think Sebastian's picture is wrong. The flower looks like a classic D. spatulata to me. Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimscott Posted January 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Okay.... dumb question: What do I have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Hi Christian, what did I dyslexically switch around? Where are some line drawings? All I can find are line drawings of South African species... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Rivadavia Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Jim: I say you have spatulata. Anyone else who cares: Yes CP Photofinder is not definitive for sure. But usually you can get a sense for which are right and which are wrong by simply looking at a large number of pictures. And as somebody mentioned above, source of pics is also very important. In the case of communis, just google where it's from (S.America), then look at which pics show this in the wild versus the ones that show it in cultivation. Usually the former are correct. And then - GASP!! - there's the option of actually googling the botanical literature!!! :) Such as this one I published in CPN a few years ago which has pics and drawings of D.communis, comparing it to D.viridis: http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cpn/Species/v32n3p79_92.html Or simply post pics here on CPUK, and everybody can give their 2 cents and have some fun while we do that. ;-) Best wishes, Fernando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Hi Dave, i don't know where you can look at line drawings, but i am sure, that D. spatulata can have glands on the flower bud. The way the spend flower bud closes in Sebastian's picture looks typical for D. spatulata to me. The flowers can have divided stigmas as well as undivided. Almost all Drosera species from South Africa (and many of the ones, that might be an alternative here), that i can right now think of do have divided styles at the base. Just by this you are ruling D. spatulata out and you say it clearly(!) is D. dielsiana, a species that is amlost not in cultivation at the moment. I will happilly accept, that i am wrong if you can prove me, that the plant above really is something different than D. spatulata ;) Here are two bad and old pictures of my plants: Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted January 31, 2013 Report Share Posted January 31, 2013 Well Christian, this is a bit of a quandary... Are the plants we now calling D. venusta really D. natalensis? While the plants we're calling "natalensis" actually being D. dielsiana? The styles are supposed to divide again in D. natalensis, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimscott Posted February 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 Don't laugh, but I was also given seeds of D. communis, separate and distinct from the plant originally posted. The seeds just started germinating this week. Stay tuned for pictures... later this year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel O. Posted February 1, 2013 Report Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) The seed of D. communis looks totally different in comparison to D. spatulata and most others. Do you remember how the seed looked like, was it more elongated similar to for example D. grantsaui, D. adelae or D. capensis? Than you can be sure you have the right seed this time. And if it wouldn´t have germinated after a longer time it would have also been D. communis, because the seed of this species is only viable for a very short time, not comparable to other species. Best regards, Dani Edited February 1, 2013 by Daniel O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimscott Posted February 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Uh.... they looked like sundews seeds... We'll see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) Hi Jim, here are pictures of true D. communis seeds: and in comparison seeds of D. spatulata: Christian Edited February 3, 2013 by Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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