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Bad ebay Seller and Cultivar Discussion.

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About the Cephalotus "Fake Boy", are plants purchased from Carniflora. A couple of weeks ago I went to find a grower who regularly buy Cephalotus from Carniflora and they were the same and in the same pots !

Anyway if for Cephalotus is difficult to have the certainty that they are the true-false clone, the other plants(Sarracenia) are hybrids produced by Carniflora and resold with names of pure species or with a fancy location !

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About the Cephalotus "Fake Boy", are plants purchased from Carniflora. A couple of weeks ago I went to find a grower who regularly buy Cephalotus from Carniflora and they were the same and in the same pots !

Anyway if for Cephalotus is difficult to have the certainty that they are the true-false clone, the other plants(Sarracenia) are hybrids produced by Carniflora and resold with names of pure species or with a fancy location !

That's exactly right and you think just like me here from the second post of this thread!

Yep, I agree. Obvioulsy all his plants come from Carniflora. I have visited many times this nursery in the Netherlands and I know quite well what plants they offer.

Fortunately, I found some pictures in my old archives taken from Carniflora a year ago.

4118691667_35567d3df4_b.jpg

4119463484_b5e554da36_b.jpg

4119464286_72413bd14d_b.jpg

4118692155_b01f608bd0_b.jpg

Well, let's go

Do u want to buy Sarracenia purpurea montana hybrid from Zeniflora from ebay?

Yes u want. Ok here is her listing

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3ccba0d070

And now u can see the same plants from Carniflora :)

4642496930_25b9390e44_b.jpg

Let's go more...

Do u want to buy Drosera spatulata from Zeniflora from ebay?

Ok u want. Ok here is her listing

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3a7a527e47

And now u can see the same plants from Carniflora :)

4119462632_1978fce790_b.jpg

4119464594_d0f6c7eae7_b.jpg

To continue or not??????

Well, have pleasant night to all :)

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Yes P.montana is still pretty rare in most peoples collections and to have seven year old hybrids to sell is good going,even if you were one of the first to have them in the country!

I certainly haven't got any seven year old plants from my p.montanas.

It certainly looks like zeniflora is selling plants grown by someone else.

And all this comment from people and no reaction from the seller,surely they are or have read this!

ada

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Yes P.montana is still pretty rare in most peoples collections and to have seven year old hybrids to sell is good going,even if you were one of the first to have them in the country!

I certainly haven't got any seven year old plants from my p.montanas.

It certainly looks like zeniflora is selling plants grown by someone else.

And all this comment from people and no reaction from the seller,surely they are or have read this!

ada

Yes I wonder who else grows and sells VFT Red Mars for example.

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You also need to be aware that the Cephalotus vigorous clumping on eBay at the minute isn't my "vigorous clumping" clone/cultivar, but just a vigorous clumping plant!

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I must admit I was wondering where all the 'Big Boy' plants were coming from. People all over Europe appear to be selling numbers.

I just went down and told Mother that it's being impersonated. Not impressed :chiffa:

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You also need to be aware that the Cephalotus vigorous clumping on eBay at the minute isn't my "vigorous clumping" clone/cultivar, but just a vigorous clumping plant!

Vigorous clumping is descriptive and the seller refers to it as 'a vigorous clumping Cephalotus clone', without quotes, so they are using it as a decription rather than a clone name, which I think is a fair description if that is its habit. I have had a plant for many years which I have referred to as vigorous clumping due to its growth habit. In my opinion, "Big Boy" can't get confused with a discription.

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Sure, you and I know that but I don't tho k everybody would read it like that.

Then, You just have to register your "vigorous clumping" with that or another name :)

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Remember ,there are only 1 cephalotus typical and 2 cultivars :eden black and Hummers giant,all the rest are only names that sellers make for sell for match money and so long growers buy this ,this names stays.

Also i have all this names(except Eden black) in my collection but i never buy some of this ,i go not waist my money to this,i have them all from swaps.

After 2 years in my collection i not see any difference ,but still not big,meaby the Hummers is a bit bigger.

After cultivate and sell this for match money for many years(if you can earn t money ,not everyone is trustfull anymore) i not think this are still the original plants,i am sure many growers think she have this but she have only typical,the difference between this clones is hard to see on young plants and buyers go not complain after 2 or 3 years,so wat s left realy from this named plants?

Like Hummers giant ,the discription is pitchers from 7 to 8 cm big,i not see match pics on the forum whit pitcher that are so big,i think not many growers have the real Hummers ,and wat is the difference whit big boy ?

Like Adrian Slack clone ,wat s make it a Adrian Slack?Is this a typical that orginally came from Slack or have this another way to look or grow?Marston clone ,wat is it,from all this names i never see a discription ,so wat growers buy ?Only names on labels for match money.

Cheers Will

By the way Stephen ,you have not the monopoly on vigorus clumbing so long you not make a registred cultivar from this,so all plants that are vigorous clumbing may stay this name,it s no more then a discription.

Edited by will9

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Like Hummers giant ,the discription is pitchers from 7 to 8 cm big,i not see match pics on the forum whit pitcher that are so big,i think not many growers have the real Hummers ,and wat is the difference whit big boy ?

Like Adrian Slack clone ,wat s make it a Adrian Slack?Is this a typical that orginally came from Slack or have this another way to look or grow?Marston clone ,wat is it,from all this names i never see a discription ,so wat growers buy ?Only names on labels for match money.

Cheers Will

I think that only few people is able to give the perfect condition to get such results. For example, Stephen named his Eden Black because it gets an amazing dark colour, but: Does anyone of you ever thought that those colours only show up in Stephen's conditions?? (peat, sun, temperature, humidity..etc...etc)

For example, this is a Dudley Watts from a friend of mine: Photo have you ever seen such a beautifull colour on any cephalotus in your collection???

Another example, this is a very big Hummer's Giant -> Photo but, as you can see, it's all green!!

ALL DEPENDS FROM GROWING CONDITION!!

By the way Stephen ,you have not the monopoly on vigorus clumbing so long you not make a registred cultivar from this,so all plants that are vigorous clumbing may stay this name,it s no more then a discription.

I agree with you!

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Then, You just have to register your "vigorous clumping" with that or another name :)

Personally I don't think that 'Vigorous Clumping' is a good cultivar name, as it is too easy to confuse it with a growth habit description. Also, I don't think the clone is worthy of a cultivar name, as I don't believe that there is anything particulary unique about it.

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A few years ago i see some cephalotus in a collection ,this was a very big plant whit pitchers easy to 8 cm whitout the upper lids,i never see a big one like that,i ask the grower wat kind it was and he told me it s a typical ,no fancy name ,only a typical,i have a offset from this one but in my condition it s not bigger then others,so i agree it s mostly how and where you grow this .

My ceps have allmost the same color like your pic,it s have to do match whit temps,in winter she are the darkest.

Since then i not believe anymore in cultivars from ceps.I go never spend my money in this but i go not discuse abouth registred cultivars ,this are accepted and have some discription,but the other names....everyone can give a name and when you have lucky and it s accept by growers you can make a lot more money then when you sell some typical,German giant ... meaby i must make a Belgian dark because my plants have a very nice color,but not buy this ,in your conditions it s only a typical green.... :sarcastic_hand:

Cheers Will

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Personally I don't think that 'Vigorous Clumping' is a good cultivar name, as it is too easy to confuse it with a growth habit description. Also, I don't think the clone is worthy of a cultivar name, as I don't believe that there is anything particulary unique about it.

There are so many unnecessary cultivar between Sarracenia and Dionaea (like Dionaea 'Clumping Cultivar') that I think that in this case would only help keeping things clear! A cultivar name needs ' ', and a Cephalotus clumping cultivar would be different from a Cephalotus 'Clumping Cultivar'

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There are so many unnecessary cultivar between Sarracenia and Dionaea (like Dionaea 'Clumping Cultivar') that I think that in this case would only help keeping things clear! A cultivar name needs ' ', and a Cephalotus clumping cultivar would be different from a Cephalotus 'Clumping Cultivar'

Whilst established growers will recognise ' ' as a cultivar and " " as a named clone, many less experience growers would not and would consider Vigorous Clumping, 'Vigorous Clumping' and "Vigorous Clumping" to be the same and it wouldn't take long for this to get confused in collections.

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For example, this is a Dudley Watts from a friend of mine: Photo have you ever seen such a beautifull colour on any cephalotus in your collection???

Yes, see below. I'll name it "Black Pudding"... that will surely increase its value :wink:

S07uo.jpg

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Yes, see below. I'll name it "Black Pudding"... that will surely increase its value :wink:

ahahahha Are you Zen_flora?? ahhahahahha :wink:

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I know that 'vigorous clumping' is not a good cultivar name. However, just because it is not registered does not mean it is not a cultivar. It appears that by mentioning it in my 'Eden Black' cultivar description I may have unintentionally established it as a cultivar. 'Dudley Watts' too. I don't claim to have the monopoly on anything, I just don't want confusion and mixed up clones where nobody knows what they are growing anymore.

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Simply by giving a clone a name, whether it be descriptive of the growth habit or the name of the original grower or nursery, is sufficient to drive demand and increase value of the plant, whether it's unique or not.

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Guest Andreas Eils

I'll name it "Black Pudding"

LOL! :laugh1:

Very good, Carl! A very TASTY name....not that I would like black pudding very much though... :sick:

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I just don't want confusion and mixed up clones where nobody knows what they are growing anymore.

Stephen do you realy think growers know now wat she are growing?Meaby if she buy this from you then she know she have the right ones ,but buying this from someone els .... never can say.

Like eden black, when you not grow this in the right conditions you never got a black plant,when you buy from some one els and this stay looking like a typical ,it s easy to say you not grow this in the right conditions.

Except the color there is no difference like some typical,so never know if you have the right one if you not buy by the maker of this.

Buying is allways in trust ,you can not els then believe wat the seller told you,sellers can sell wat she want and be sure there are a lot that do this when she can earnt big money.Not think money not chanced people. :triniti:

But so long buyers are so stupid to buy plants like this for so match money .............and mostly only pay for the label and wat on ,it s like when you buy clotes from big labels ,you pay more for the label then for the clotes :laugh1:

So it s like i see this ,meaby a lot of you see this on another way but people are sometimes very stupid,

Cheers Will

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The problem is people are too eager to asign a name to a plant even for slight differences. They are then too quick to start selling it before really growing the plant for some time and observing the characteristics under different conditions. This is sometimes due to greed and sometimes just over enthusiasm. You can only be certain that you have something different if you collect registered cultivars, as here someone has actually applied a set of rules before recognising it.

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cpphotofinder lists 20 Cephalotus cultivars, with only two of them being registered. I suspect that you would be hard-pressed to distinguish the difference between many of them.

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The problem is people are too eager to asign a name to a plant even for slight differences. They are then too quick to start selling it before really growing the plant for some time and observing the characteristics under different conditions. This is sometimes due to greed and sometimes just over enthusiasm. You can only be certain that you have something different if you collect registered cultivars, as here someone has actually applied a set of rules before recognising it.

I've only been growing 'Big Boy' since 1983-4 and never sold one. Am I too eager or greedy?

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I've only been growing 'Big Boy' since 1983-4 and never sold one. Am I too eager or greedy?

I'm really curious to see how big is it right now :P

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