P. spec. Minas des Asbestos

[Fernando Rivadavia]

Interesting info, thanks!

What tissues were you using for your genome sizing? Maybe the small peaks you mentioned represented a smaller amount of the polyploid tissue relative to diploid tissue. For example, if you used a whole plant and the leaves were diploid while the petals, sepals, glandular hairs, or roots were polyploid, you would see a smaller polyploid peak simply because proportionately there were less cells.

Chromosome numbers may be a lot more variable than we think in wild populations, but usually these studies are done with a few clones present in cultivation (and which may have gone through tissue culture at some point, altering the numbers).

Anyway, the take-home message here is that we are using multiple names for plants that currently cannot be reliably distinguished morphologically, and that we know are highly variable in the wild even within single populations.

All the best,

Fernando Rivadavia

[Zlatokrt]

Only leaves and sometimes flower stalks - never flowers, since i wanted to avoid the most probable endopolyploidic tissues and never roots, since i measured my own plants and i did not want to kill them

I think the most probable endopolyploidic tissue were the glands producing trapping glue - i would expect them to be polyploid to increase the amount of glue produced. Fortunatelly, the glue was not a problem for flow cytometry. And that agrees with what you wrote and what i think too -> less cells = smaller peaks.

With the rest you wrote and the take away message i can only agree. An extensive genome size measurement of large number of plants from many populations would be interesting i think, at least it could tell us more about the real genome size variation (and indirectly about chrom. num. too). But such research has only low chances to get the money to perform it...

Regards

Adam

[Guest Andreas Eils]

Hmmm...these strongly curved margins look exciting and the contrast between the deep reddish leaf top and the pale greyish underside of the leaf looks great! With a wink you could believe all these characteristics are caused by the asbestos in the soil!

Edited January 13, 2013 by Andreas Eils

[dvg]

Hmmm...these strongly curved margins look exciting and the contrast between the deep reddish leaf top and the pale greyish underside of the leaf looks great! With a wink you could believe all these characteristics are caused by the asbestos in the soil!

Haha, and with a wink this new growth pattern could be blamed on the same asbestos...

It looks like this mexi-ping has decided to change things up and recently started to part its hair down the middle.

A month ago it had two growth points and appeared that it was getting ready to divide.

The two growth points didn't divide as may be expected, but instead, new points continue to be produced in an advancing line across this plant's crown.

It seems this plant has departed from growing in typical rosetted fashion and taken on an emerging cristate pattern of growth.

Will have to keep this plant well fed and further observe how this cristate growth continues to march forth.

*Meanwhile, the eager and ever loyal lab assistant, Igor, feverishly grinds out another nutritious bloodworm meal for the waiting troops.*

dvg

Edited March 26, 2013 by dvg

[Fernando Rivadavia]

Cool, I hope it flowers from those multiple growth points, that would be amazing! :)

[dvg]

Cool, I hope it flowers from those multiple growth points, that would be amazing! :)

Agreed! That would be amazing.

A small update here.

From April 1st, not much change, but the key here is that the plant has been fed some powdered blood worms.

And this pic from April 8.

More points showing up now on April 12

May 1 - this plant has now made three double-wide leaves and is working on the fourth one. (centre).

dvg

Edited May 1, 2013 by dvg

[dvg]

Here are a few pics from today.

And I found another pic with some cristate ping forms in it - scroll down to the bottom of the page in the link below.

http://carnivorousplant.com/growing_pinguicula_detailed.html

dvg

[Richard Bunn]

It's a lovely plant. I love the shape.

[19Silverman93]

I agree with Richard, It's a gorgeous ping even without the fascinating growth pattern Did you ever get a species narrowed down for it or is it still just P. Minas des Asbestos?

Edited June 3, 2013 by 19Silverman93

[dvg]

Thanks guys, here is an update from today.

Top view

Side view

Opposite side

dvg

[mobile]

It's getting some nice shape now...like a pompom

[Ruben Resendiz]

This a beautiful plant but grows like insane, this plant looks like a tridacna shell =)

[19Silverman93]

it looks a bit brainlike if you squint a bit

[dvg]

Haha, looks like mexi-ping this has gotten your imaginative juices flowing. :)

I don't usually provide an instructional illustration to aid in understanding a series of photos, but hopefully this might come in handy in following what i'm about to show you.

This cristate growth pattern began in the center of this Pinguicula rosette and grew out in two opposite directions away from the centre.

Now the leading growth points are curling back in a counter clock-wise direction resulting in a shallow inverted "S" shape.

I am going to attempt to follow this cristate growth corresponding to the left-sided arrow around the hairpin turn at the top, over the hump in the center, descending down the back-slope, around the bend at the bottom and finally back up the backstretch to the finish at the right-sided arrow.

Got it? Good! Let get going. :)

Here is the side of this mexi-ping, with the dead leaves showing the cleavage I had hoped would result in a splitting into two of this plant.

And another shot of this end's growth.

Around the first bend and ascending

up to the peak

and then descending down the other side

and around the last turn

to at last the other end.

dvg

[Dave Evans]

Chromosome numbers may be a lot more variable than we think in wild populations, but usually these studies are done with a few clones present in cultivation (and which may have gone through tissue culture at some point, altering the numbers).

Anyway, the take-home message here is that we are using multiple names for plants that currently cannot be reliably distinguished morphologically, and that we know are highly variable in the wild even within single population.

Hi Fernando,

I realize what you are saying. However, I think the argument for using the number of chromosomes as useful for separating or combiming taxa is flawed. Just try to apply this logic in Nepenthes, Heliamphora or Sarracenia when all species have the same numbers.

To me, Mexican Pinguicula remind a lot of Nepenthes. We have both N. mirabilis and P. moranensis which are very widespread, probably both a new species with some special way of spreading we don't know about yet... While the rest of species are older and have already evolved mostly into local endemics (adaptive radiation) from previously widespread species. The mountains are probably key to generating so many different conditions for both Nepenthes and Mexican Pinguicula and central European Pinguicula to evolve in.

[dvg]

Since the last series of photos were taken on this thread, I attempted to clean up the dead roots and leaves from the fringes and underside of this cristate form, which resulted in a tidier plant that broke apart cleanly into three pieces.

These three pieces continue to grow in a signature serpentine "S" shaped pattern.

Some leaf pullings taken just prior to the mother plant's conversion to crested growth, have all remained in rosette growth.

dvg

[corky]

such an interesting thread ,very well documented as usual DVG, love the colour of the leaf pulling plants too

[dvg]

such an interesting thread ,very well documented as usual DVG, love the colour of the leaf pulling plants too

 

 

Thanks Corky.

 

Here are a few pics from today.

 

 

One of these crested forms in a 3 inch clay pot,

 

 

resting atop a bed of garnets.

 

 

 

 

dvg