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Definitive P. 'Weser' and P. 'Sethos' flowers


jimfoxy

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At last, after 3yrs of tracking these down, a holiday to Scotland and some kind permission, I am able to point you to clear photos of Slack's definitive P. 'Weser' and P. 'Sethos'.

I managed to find the slide collection used for 'Insect Eating Plants and How to Grow Them' and discovered that, although the slide published in the book was missing from what remained, two more slides were in the collection, clearly taken at the same time (I expect through the classic photography 3-shot method of under and over exposure). The edited reprint of the book, 'Insect Eaters' notably missed out the photo of P. 'Weser' and P. 'Sethos', possibly because the original slide has now disappeared.

Unfortunately, the foliage that relates to these flowers is out of focus and is of little use. The foliage in the foreground of the photo in the book does not appear to pertain to the flowers themselves and so cannot be definitely said to be either 'Sephos' or 'Weser'.

Here they are:

http://jimfoxy.co.uk/sethos_weser.html

Although many of us know that the true forms are in circulation in collections, there are even more forms named as such that are not the true cultivars. I hope this reference will help the confusion that has dogged these cultivars since the Dutch nurseries began pretending to sell them.

I am urging the current guardian of the slides to scan all he has in but he is a busy chap!

Edited by jimfoxy
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I'm not sure about this Bob... It just seems to me people have simply confused the two sibilings. For example, I continually examples of "sethos" which are really P. 'Weser' and the reverse.

Could someone post some of these "fakes"? This is a pretty weak cultivar group BTW, the main difference is only white area in the mouth vs. a white stripe... Somehow leading to years of confusion. Why would there even be any fakes? These two clone themselves silly, like ex-vitro TC :)

Slack's description of 'Weser' isn't even accurate. There is a larger, wide white stripe in the middle of the flower, but just as often there are a pair of smaller, thin white stripes on either side of the main stripe--sort of the opposite of the word "solitary"...

Edited by Dave Evans
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Could someone post some of these "fakes"?

This is what I purchased as a mass produced Pinguicula Weser in my local gardencenter in Germany:

gallery_3985_310_2936.jpg

The flower is of much lighter colour than the "original Weser". The plants are kept in pure peat and shady conditions on a north-east facing window sill.

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Thanks so much. I have noticed that the same exact clones can drastically change colors of the leaves and flowers, depending on the soil pH and how much nutrient is in it... Even the temps will affect the colors displayed on Mexican Pinguicula.

The plant below appear to me to simply be 'Sethos' again mislabeled as 'Weser'. 'Sethos' does have a lighter color than 'Weser', in 'Weser' the white areas are surrounded with a really dark purple that is not seen in 'Sethos'.

gallery_3985_310_2936.jpg

Three colors on 'Weser'; lilac, dark purple and white. A lot of contrast.

Two colors on 'Sethos'; lilac and white. There is some darkening of lilac near the opening at the bottom upper corolla but there is little of contrast seen in the flower of 'Weser'.

Edited by Dave Evans
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The plant above does not look like Sethos to me. If you have photos of the same clone with varying flower patterns due to conditions, they would be great to post.

The abundance of misnamed plants probably varies a lot with locality. From what on see on the web, more plants in the US appear to be the real thing (or close to it).

Some more examples just from a quick search on this forum - these don't look much like Sethos:

http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=39406

http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=37558

http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=25957

These do look more like like Sethos:

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4962/plants031zq1.jpg

http://www.tropical-mesa.com/a_img_share/CP2K/P_Sethos_c.jpg

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Dear Jim,

They all look like the same clone to me... 'Sethos'.

I grew both for years and years.

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This is what I have as P. 'Sethos':

100_9641.jpg

To me, it looks like the "many-rayed mouth like a white star" from your photos. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of a P. 'Weser' flower to compare it with.

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Hi Dave - thanks - it would be great if you can post some photos to show the variation from a single plant. Thanks.

Yeah, it would be nice if I had taken photos, but at the time I figured this would be something fairly well known in the community--in any collection of just about any kind of plant when the gardener is doing a nice good of keeping the plants happy, they will look much better even more robust. Tiny flowers don't show as much detail as larger examples and it is well known temps affect plant and flower colors with cooler weather generally promoting more reds and purples...

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Yeah, it would be nice if I had taken photos, but at the time I figured this would be something fairly well known in the community--in any collection of just about any kind of plant when the gardener is doing a nice good of keeping the plants happy, they will look much better even more robust. Tiny flowers don't show as much detail as larger examples and it is well known temps affect plant and flower colors with cooler weather generally promoting more reds and purples...

This could well be the case. However, it is not the colour variation or size that I am questioning; this depends on age of flower as well. What I would really like to see is how much the patterning in the flower varies with different conditions.

To me, more P. x 'Sethos' in USA look a lot more like the definitive photos than those in Europe, and I have assumed that this is due to the source of the plants and that most plants in Europe are from Dutch TC nurseries and are neither P. x 'Sethos' or P. x 'Weser', though they can be labelled as such by the nursery. Jim's plant above looks a lot like the real thing.

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What I would really like to see is how much the patterning in the flower varies with different conditions.

Ah, I can explain this a little better. The "coloration patterns" stay the same for the most part, it is the intensity of various color which changes along with the size of the flowers. I've started using some time-release bloom promoting fertilizer on my Mexican Pings, and the results have been very encouraging so far.

I think, for the most part, the "fake weser" are more like 'Sethos', than they are 'Weser', but it wouldn't be a bad idea to try growing all three together in the same conditions for a decent comparison...

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