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Vic2

CPS committee changes debate

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I'm told I did a good job as Internet Officer yes.

You did a good job whilst you were with us. You decided to leave and then cut short your original notice period which left us in the proverbial lurch. Not good.

Better that the Chairman and de facto Vice-Chairman posts (and the associated Trustee positions) remain vacant.

Given the chance, do you think that anyone else would stand for these position

We don't actually have a Vice-Chairman (though perhaps we should). The Chairman's post is up for renewal at the AGM, as all posts are. There is no reason why any member cannot apply for the post, they would be voted in or out, same as the rest. As to leaving the Chairman's post and/or the Trustee positions vacant, I personally don't think that is a good idea. We need committee members and we currently have four Trustees - a good workable number.

Well of course the conservation funding was for an organisation in the Republic of Ireland but that's close enough geographically, if not politically

I did realise - but still in Ireland:-) I too would love to visit Ireland - North and South.

Flick

Still present Treasurer, CPS

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Vic,

Given the chance, do you think that anyone else would stand for these positions?

YES. :smile:

'Nuff said.

The very last thing they need is support from little ol' me... :biggrin:

I don't want them to be hated by some Trustees as much as me.

That wouldn't be good for the Society.

Vic

P.S.

The Trustee positions for Chairman and Vice-Chairman would also have to be replaced too, otherwise Steve and Paul will still be needed to respond and make decisions for the Society.

Also - as you may have noticed - the Trustees consist entirely of the Long-Time Fan Club of Steve 'n' Paul at the moment... :shout:

P.P.S.

Now, take a really wild guess as to who appointed Phil Wilson as Trustee in 2009 without reference to the (allegedly) governing Committee of the CPS...? :biggrin:

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Well with all due respect I think you're wrong Vic!

this is yet another vacuous untruth wrapped up to make it seem fact.

Always glad to expose yet another lie wrapped up as fact from Vic. There are no CPS elections by secret ballot as he knows this perfectly well since he was in fact at one point an elected member of the committee.

Phil

A kindly word to the wise, Phil:

Have a cuppa and a sit-down and consult your colleagues - well, the ones that'll answer you, anyhow - before making posts on behalf of the UK Carnivorous Plant Society.

You are - individually, and collectively as a Society - in enough trouble from your rash comments as it is.

Best wishes,

Vic

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You did a good job whilst you were with us. You decided to leave and then cut short your original notice period which left us in the proverbial lurch. Not good.

We don't actually have a Vice-Chairman (though perhaps we should). The Chairman's post is up for renewal at the AGM, as all posts are. There is no reason why any member cannot apply for the post, they would be voted in or out, same as the rest. As to leaving the Chairman's post and/or the Trustee positions vacant, I personally don't think that is a good idea. We need committee members and we currently have four Trustees - a good workable number.

Flick

Still present Treasurer, CPS

I'd rather humbled to hear you say - particularly in the current climate - that you appreciated my efforts, Flick. :biggrin:

But - as you know - I didn't leave the Society "in the proverbial lurch" over the Web site and membership applications.

I passed administrator privilege to Dennis, and explained to him how to add and update members on the Website. On request, I also added another Committee member as administrator. Then I cancelled my own privileges.

Given the animosity from the 'Fan Club of Steve 'n' Paul' at the time, I recall Dennis was rather grateful that I took the time and trouble to help him and the Society continue to function and provide a service to members online.

Best wishes,

Vic

P.S.

I know you to be an excellent Treasurer, Flick. I've always enjoyed your company and admired your work for the charity. The Society needs your skills and your gentility. Otherwise, the Trustees and Committee will be knee-deep in blokes, and the other ladies will be unfairly outnumbered...! :biggrin:

I hope this "Still Present Treasurer, CPS" label you've started using doesn't mean you're thinking of melodramatically tying yourself to the railway tracks and blackmailing the membership with something like a "If Steve and Paul go, I go too" ultimatum?

It's glaringly evident that Steve and Paul wouldn't do the same for you.

They won't even reply here to assist you, Phil and the Society, for they simply can't be bothered. :smile:

The expression you once used to me, when we were trying to get the Chairman and de facto Vice-Chairman to respond to a previous crisis for the Society (over Rick Bailey and Alan Haines), was "Steve and Paul are bomb-proof".

It's only with time that I came to realise the true horror for the Society behind that statement.

Not wanting my good name tarred with the disservice caused to members by this horrible situation, and being unable to get the needed changes made within the Society to alleviate it, is the major reason I left the Committee and the Society itself. I remember telling you at the time. :shout:

Edited by Vic2

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I passed administrator privilege to Dennis, and explained to him how to add and update members on the Website. On request, I also added another Committee member as administrator.

You left us in the lurch as we had no time to find and appoint a new Internet Officer before you left.

I hope this "Still Present Treasurer, CPS" label you've started using doesn't mean you're thinking of melodramatically tying yourself to the railway tracks and blackmailing the membership with something like a "If Steve and Paul go, I go too" ultimatum?

Don't make up stories on my behalf please Vic. My committee post is due for renewal or change at the AGM along with all the others.

The expression you once used to me, when we were trying to get the Chairman and de facto Vice-Chairman to respond to a previous crisis for the Society (over Rick Bailey and Alan Haines), was "Steve and Paul are bomb-proof".

Don't take what I said out of context and twist it Vic. It is what you are so good at! What I meant was - Steve and Paul have a measured, calm response, whereas others (including you) are hot-headed and rush in. As I said then and I say now - there needs to be a balance. Balance is good, extreme is not.

Flick

Still present Treasurer, CPS

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I will leave this thread going until after the AGM on the 9th April. We will know then of all the new committee members the CPS has (or don't have is more likely) Whether or not the CPS committee changes the the bickering stops. Time will be better spent thinking of ways to improve the society and not just blaming each other for what is wrong.

Andy

:man_in_love:

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Time will be better spent thinking of ways to improve the society and not just blaming each other for what is wrong.

Andy

:man_in_love:

Fair comment, Andy.

I genuinely want to help save the Society from this continuing neglect.

My ideas for doing so:

The very best way to improve the Society is for the present Chairman and de facto Vice-Chairman to start doing their leadership and Trustee jobs, and to be seen to be doing them.

The all-important supervisory functions of Chairmanship would then take care of most of the issues raised in this topic, e.g.

  • making sure information is kept up-to-date;
  • ensuring things are working and done on time;
  • seeking out, listening to and acting on the wishes of the membership;
  • making sure the Society is achieving its constitutional charitable aims;
  • Giving a friendly nudge where needed

We all know by now that this simply isn't going to happen. :wink:

If things are wrong at the top, no amount of tinkering at the bottom can fix the problems effectively.

So, to move on:

Organise a secret ballot of the whole membership for individual Committee and Trustee positions.

Not just the few who can go to the AGM.

Unlike me, people are too scared to stand out. They'll vote as they're expected to, in an open show of hands. Then they'll leave the CPS, because the Society still has no effective leadership, therefore little can be done for the membership.

I don't want to see the Society to continue to slide slowly into oblivion, as it will do if the Chairman, Vice-Chairman and (some) Trustees aren't replaced. Steve and Paul don't have to leave the Society or even the Committee; they're good growers, amiable guys, and do a great job at the exhibitions. :P

But they shouldn't remain Trustees, or in positions where they are required to respond to members or the Committee in a timely fashion, for the sake of the Society. Please...!!

  • Jerry's idea of CPS elections at the EEE seems ideal to garner the democratic opinion of the majority of the CPS membership.
  • Individual elections for Trustees as well as Committee members, so no-one gets through by default.
  • A secret ballot to ensure no-one is embarrassed to vote how they really want to.
  • Where there is only one candidate for a Trustee or Committee post, set a minimum election threshold - say 51% or 25 of the voters in favour, whichever is greater - below which the person standing for that post cannot take it up, as he/she does not have the support of the democratic majority.
    (Better an empty post, than filled by someone without a mandate from the membership. That's what's behind the serious troubles that have plagued the Society for years).

If anyone objects to these basic democratic principles for the CPS, I'd like to know why.

And so would the RHS and the Charities Commission.

(The CPS is constitutionally affiliated to the RHS, which means it has to abide by RHS standards to remain an affiliate).

Does this sound a reasonable way for the Society - not me - to improve things, folks?

Vic

Edited by Vic2

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What I meant was - Steve and Paul have a measured, calm response, whereas others (including you) are hot-headed and rush in. As I said then and I say now - there needs to be a balance. Balance is good, extreme is not.

Flick

Still present Treasurer, CPS

:lol:

You are looking at Steve 'n' Paul rather more than optimistically, dear Flick... :P

OK mods and world at large, feel free to slap me for responding to this - I deserve it - but I just can't resist: :wink:

Measured, on a geological timescale, obviously; :wink:

Calm, to the point where clinical death is suspected;

Balance, as in "Is there enough in it for me to do something about it? Nah..." :Laie_96:

And at the end of these mighty, considered deliberations - which should not be mistaken for self-interested apathy - the response of the Chairman and de facto Vice-Chairman is to do nothing (e.g. this thread), repeatedly miss Committee meetings, turn up late and announce his candidacy literally minutes before the elections (Chairman Steve), or highlight the last 3 months of unread CPS email and hit 'Delete' (Paul's revelation at the 2009 AGM Committee meeting).

We are indeed privileged to have such leadership and Trustees of the CPS :yes:

I'm-Not-Worthy! of Letchworth :man_in_love:

Edited by Vic2

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I live 582 miles from where the AGM is being held. Are you going to hold it further north, or even a central location, in future years so that member who live north do not have to travel so far?

Hi Mobile

I am sorry that you are not able to attend the AGM as it is 582 miles from your home.

Since taking on the role of meetings organiser last year, it was suggested to me by other committee members to maybe get the AGM and the EOS to venues around the country so that all members would be able to attend at some point. This is something that I am very keen on doing and I welcome any suggestions for future AGM's and EOS's. You will notice on the CPS events diary for this year, that as of yet there is no EOS booked and this is because I am looking for a new location in other parts of the country.

If anyone has any good suggestions please email me at [email protected]

Regards Dianne Riddiford

CPS Meetings organiser

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ALso just a little thing - Why not have the AGM at Chester? Lots of us will be there - it can be held on that boat or a nice pub and it removes the stuffiness. Surrey is 200 miles from me!!!! Since we are in the majority going to Chester then......... something about Mohammed and the mountain springs to mind here!

Hi Jerry

Both myself (CPS meetings organiser) and the new promotions officer live 193 miles away from where the AGM is being held this year. We will both be attending so if travelling is a problem, maybe we could help with a van share.

Regards Dianne Riddiford

CPS Meetings organiser

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Otherwise, the Trustees and Committee will be knee-deep in blokes, and the other ladies will be unfairly outnumbered...! :man_in_love:

Ahem................... since when did I become a bloke???? I think that you will find Vic that I am female the same as Flick and Sheila!!!

Regards Dianne Riddiford

CPS Meetings organiser

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Dianne, 193 miles to Chester, is that all ?

Down in Essex, it is all of that, 200 miles plus. Steve T has even further to go.

I can't understand why Mobile can't get a cheap Ryanair flight down here for the AGM.

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Dianne, 193 miles to Chester, is that all ?

Down in Essex, it is all of that, 200 miles plus. Steve T has even further to go.

I can't understand why Mobile can't get a cheap Ryanair flight down here for the AGM.

Excuse me? So the AGM should be held in the South should it, so it suits Southern members? The CPS doesn't have any Northern members? I wasn't selfishly considering just myself. The CPS should look at its members locations and consider a venue that is central to the majority, which I suspect would be the Midlands. In fact, if you choose Birmingham, David could get a cheap flight to Birmingham International. To be honest, it is highly unlikely that I will attend the AGM, which seems a little pointless given the block voting system, but I will be going to EEE 2011, which I will be driving 450 miles to, with an overnight stopover.

Edited by mobile

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Otherwise, the Trustees and Committee will be knee-deep in blokes, and the other ladies will be unfairly outnumbered...! :wink:
Ahem................... since when did I become a bloke???? I think that you will find Vic that I am female the same as Flick and Sheila!!!

Regards Dianne Riddiford

CPS Meetings organiser

Er... Before reaching for the keyboard, perhaps you should've read my post a bit more carefully, Dianne. :2095:

I hope you're standing for election at the AGM, btw. I hear you're a good 'un, and Your Society needs You!! :shock:

Kind regards,

General-Kitchener of Letchworth x

P.S.

An unworthy thought occurs to me:

You've not joined certain Trustees is feverishly scouring my posts for any opportunity - no matter how slim - to discredit me and the truth I'm telling, have you?

I really hope not; you're better than that.

N.B. Note how few of your Committee and Trustee colleagues are trying to fight the truth about the neglectful leadership of the CPS. (That includes Steve 'n' Paul !!!) :wink:

Edited by Vic2

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Aaargh!! :wink:

I've made a hideous blunder!!! :wink:

(Feel free - and with glee - to organise a firing squad, Phil 'n' Flick;

my last request is that Steve 'n' Paul join me, for the good of the Society...) :shock:

I should make it abundantly clear that when I refer to "Steve", I am only referring to Steve Cottell, apathetic Chairman of the CPS, and not - in no way, never - to Steve Taverner or Stephen Crane, both serving on the CPS Committee, or any other Steve in the Universe.

Ditto for Paul McKeown and other Pauls. :yes:

Thoroughly good eggs, the Steves and Pauls. Well, most of 'em. :wink:

Yes-I'm-Only-Human of Letchworth :2095:

Edited by Vic2

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Hi Mobile

I am sorry that you are not able to attend the AGM as it is 582 miles from your home.

Since taking on the role of meetings organiser last year, it was suggested to me by other committee members to maybe get the AGM and the EOS to venues around the country so that all members would be able to attend at some point. This is something that I am very keen on doing and I welcome any suggestions for future AGM's and EOS's. You will notice on the CPS events diary for this year, that as of yet there is no EOS booked and this is because I am looking for a new location in other parts of the country.

If anyone has any good suggestions please email me at [email protected]

Regards Dianne Riddiford

CPS Meetings organiser

One my map has more growers on it you can use it to see where the dense spots lie and then choose a location that accomodates most, just a suggestion :)

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Hi

a while ago I plotted the location of member's on a map. Around 65% of members live in the South East of England. The further North and West you go the fewer members there are. So members like me who live in the the South West have to travel over 200 miles to the AGM/End of Season meetings and it is around 250 miles for me to get to Chester. I will be attending all three. Some of the open days are even further for me.

If we are to hold the AGM/End of Season Meetings closest to most of our members it would be somewhere just to the North/West of London. I agree though that we should look to holding one or both of these elsewhere from time to time. In the past we have had the use of Reasing University and RHS Wisley at no charge. It appears that a change of policy at Wisley means that we are no longer welcome there and it wasn't possible for Reading to hold the AGM there this year. Holdings these meetings elsewhere will incur a cost but this shouldn't put us off. As Dianne says if you can suggest alternatives where there is sufficient space for a meeting, plant sales etc please contact her. If they have some general horticultural or CP specific interest so much the better.

Open days are more widespread with 3 in Devon/Cornwall, 1 in Wales, 2 in East Anglia, 2 in the North(ish) West, 1 in the North with the remainder in the South East.

We could do with more in the Midlands, the North and Scotland. You don't have to have a large collection to hold an open day.

I hope as many as possible of you will make the effort to attend the AGM.

Cheers

Dennis

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Like many I've been watching this thread and against my better judgment decided to throw my 2 penny's worth in, aware that this will lay me open to a torrent of nit picking of every phrase word and punctuation mark I use.

Firstly vic do you not see that to the observer your posts are filled with personall animosity towards Paul and Steve and at times you appear to be arguing with yourself and before you come back with "there not answering" why should they? As already stated your now longer a member so they have no obligation to reply to any of your accusations, maybe they are to old..... To get involved in childish mud slinging on a public forum, where I think your unsubstantiated allegations are irreparable damaging the society's image for the future, before you repeat them (I've read them thanks, several times!) if you have such serious evidence give it to the appropriate authorities be that police, charity commission, RHS whoever because at the moment your waiving around an unloaded gun threatening to shoot people!

I have no personall issue with any of the party's involved, whenever I've met them I found you all to be a bit strange! Lol as I'm sure we all appear. I to have had difficulty contacting Steve to appologise for letting the society down at last Years NEC show but I put it down to the fact he hadn't been home for 8 weeks with his work and Chelsea etc nobody's perfect and that's why we have commities do that many can work for the common good all chipping in with what our commitments will allow. I'm sorry vic but if your passion had not been consumed by animosity I believe you'd have probally done the society some good (hell I detest most the people I work with but that doesn't get in the way when achieving a common goal). Anyone who reads this forum knows on any thread you comment on you like to get the last word, so rather than another thesis on the ills of the society maybe just kick back with a beer and a grin in the knowledge that you have woke up some of the membership to there own lack of input and started a debate that will hopefully have a positive outcome.

I would agree, as most have, that the cps website is dated and uninspiring but it appears that there has been issues with the post of Internet person in the past maybe vic could have worked in his position to change the site rather than let his personal issues with other members get in the way, who knows you could have ousted Steve from within if you'd showed the rest of the commitie more commitment to the society than Steve, just a thought. Reading back it could appear I'm backing the commitie and personally attacking vic this is not how it is intended there all big enough and ugly enough to fight there own battles. When I've spoke to vic he seems a nice chap maybe been a big fella he's used to getting his own way but that's the beauty of the geekiweb everyone is a keyboard hero. I just felt that maybe I'm not alone in feeling that while some valid points have been raised, if I was new to the hobby after reading this thread I'd avoid the cps, meetings, open days and VIC like the plague, not good!

I could go on but I think there should be enough here to keep vic typing for a bit, please any factual discrepancies, spelling mistakes, bad punctuation keep it to ya self mate as I realy don't care, trying to belittle and intimidate people on the web just makes you look a mug "ye git me blud?"

I'm sure this post is down to my painkillers as I've broke my hand pretty bad! Lol

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Phil, do you agree that in general that the website needs updating?

Yes - of course it needs updating. But it's not a 5 minute job - or not that way I write 'em anyway!

Phil

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Er... Before reaching for the keyboard, perhaps you should've read my post a bit more carefully, Dianne. :2095:

I hope you're standing for election at the AGM, btw. I hear you're a good 'un, and Your Society needs You!! :shock:

Kind regards,

General-Kitchener of Letchworth x

P.S.

An unworthy thought occurs to me:

You've not joined certain Trustees is feverishly scouring my posts for any opportunity - no matter how slim - to discredit me and the truth I'm telling, have you?

I really hope not; you're better than that.

N.B. Note how few of your Committee and Trustee colleagues are trying to fight the truth about the neglectful leadership of the CPS. (That includes Steve 'n' Paul !!!) :wink:

My comment Vic was supposed to be just a light hearted remark, not a dig at your comment.

And yes of course, I will be standing for election at the AGM

And Vic,. if you don't mind me saying, FYI I am not scouring your posts for any opportunity to discredit you...... I read everything that takes my interests on CPUK and comment when I wish to. I have only met you once and I can't honestly make an opinion about you. I know absolutely nothing about what has gone on between you and other committee members and in all honesty I don't want to know either!!!

Regards Dianne

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Hi

If we are to hold the AGM/End of Season Meetings closest to most of our members it would be somewhere just to the North/West of London.

As Dianne says if you can suggest alternatives where there is sufficient space for a meeting, plant sales etc please contact her.

If they have some general horticultural or CP specific interest so much the better.

Cheers

Dennis

I looked into new venues for the CPS in 2009, when we thought we couldn't hold the AGM in Reading, and I can suggest two sites to the North/West of London.

Scotsdale Nursery & Garden Centre

120 Cambridge Road

Great Shelford

Cambridge

CB22 5JT

This national-award-winning Garden Centre has conference facilities for 80 with ample parking. The dreaming spires of Cambridge are a couple of miles up the road, so make a day of it. In 2009, Liz told me that they would host the CPS AGM for free.

Rothamsted Research

Harpenden

Hertfordshire

AL5 2JQ

Rothamsted is the largest agricultural research centre in the United Kingdom and almost certainly the oldest agricultural research station in the world.

They have superb conference facilities and ample parking. I was there last weekend, for a wildlife charity conference. The cost for that conference was £8 each (£6 if you have income problems) which included filter coffee, upmarket tea and nice biscuits in those little cellophane packs of three. (I got Hobnobs, which made my day). :wink:

I have contacts for both places, in case anyone needs more information and dares to ask a question of Satan himself... :2095:

I'm really nice deep down underneath, you know... I want the best for the CPS...

This is just the only way I've been able to find that stands any chance of achieving the desperately-needed change for the long-term survival and prosperity of the CPS, to aid our hobby and our still-wild plants.

Aaaah! of Letchworth :shock:

Edited by Vic2

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My comment Vic was supposed to be just a light hearted remark, not a dig at your comment.

And yes of course, I will be standing for election at the AGM

And Vic,. if you don't mind me saying, FYI I am not scouring your posts for any opportunity to discredit you...... I have only met you once and I can't honestly make an opinion about you.

Regards Dianne

My mistake, Dianne; I retract unreservedly. :wink:

Glad you're standing for the Committee again. :shock:

In case it hasn't been said, thank you for all your freely given effort for members and other CP growers over the past year. We all benefit, and I'm grateful.

Btw, I luv you too!! :2095:

Hoping-to-be-Slapped-to-Boost-his-Street-Cred of Letchworth :wink:

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I wasn't going to bother but why not, you can have another veiled snipe and get the last word. My apologies if my ya git me blud comment was interperated by you as some form of threat, it wasn't maybe I should have lol'ed after, it was purely a light hearted way me and my associates diffuse situations where everything is getting a bit heated and a swift reminder of how yout behave makes everyone realise we are all adults now do you get me? If I was desperate to obtain some street cred (the term props Is used in my hood these days) the last way I'd think about it would be getting into a Internet beefathon on a carnivorous plant forum, dunno about letchworth but the cp world wouldn't be considered ghetto round my ends nah mean G? Any respect I have amongst my peers has been obtained through mutual respect and co-operation not through intimidation (passive aggressive call it what you like) or talking everyone else down. Seriously though you should go into politics your ability to twist words, selectively use 'facts' and make the last comment a parting shot are sorely missing in this day and age. Anyway spent way to much time on this geek filled forum gotta go cook me up some rock so my bredrin got some product to shot tonite as 5 0 were propa on top last nite ya get me blud? LOL!!!

Apologising for dragging this thread off track when it was actually becoming quite positive xx

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How far north and west of London does the target area extend, folks?

Might have some other ideas for venues...

Vic

Edited by Vic2

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I have heard privately that Steve Cottell and Paul McKeown are intending to stay on as CPS Trustees and stand for election as Chairman and de facto Vice-Chairman again.

I understand that they won't make any accountable commitments to improve on what they are doing at the moment.

Apparently, they consider that everything will settle back to service as usual when they are re-elected.

A very sad day for the CPS, our hobby and our wild plants in the UK, folks :pleasantry:

Vic

Edited by Vic2

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