Naming convention of sarracenia crosses


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Hi,

Now that the first sarracenia flower buds are appearing I was thinking of planning some crosses. But I was wondering how to describe any seeds produced. For instance if I pollinate plant A with pollen from plant B and vice versa can I give both sets of seed the same name, ie S. (A x B), or should only the first be S.(A x B) and the second S.(B x A)? What's the general opinion on this?

Thanks,

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A: Mother

B: Father (pollen)

Offspring is named: Sarracenia A × B

and vica-versa, respectively.

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Yes, but when the name moorei was given, it was because at the time one thought it was a species of its own. Practically all names given to the F1 hybrids have their own names, only because that's how things were done at the time.

If you make your own cross between leucophylla and flava, you should write it in such a way that one can discern the parentage, you may of course still call it:

Sarracenia ×moorei (Sarracenia flava × leucophylla or flava × leucophylla)

If you own a ×moorei, and you do not know who is mommy and daddy, then it should be listed this way: Sarracenia ×moorei (flava * leucophylla).

Edited by Amar
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If you own a ×moorei, and you do not know who is mommy and daddy, then it should be listed this way: Sarracenia ×moorei (flava * leucophylla).

Thanks for the info Amar, I didn't know about that nomenclature. I'll have to keep my seeds separate and named correctly then.

Cheers,

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Thanks for the info Amar, I didn't know about that nomenclature. I'll have to keep my seeds separate and named correctly then.

Cheers,

Sure, let me slightly correct my statement. You of course don't have to add the (flava * leucophylla) after the name of the hybrid (S. ×moorei). If you do not add it, one will automatically assume that it is unclear if flava or leucophylla is the mother or father. When this is unknown, one uses the asterisk * and not the cross ×. If however you do know which species was father or mother, then there is no real reason calling the plant S. ×moorei, instead it then can be called S. f × l, or S. l × f respectively.

Edited by Amar
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Those original names, given to natural hybrids, originally believed to be species, such as Sarracenia x catesbaei, are considered by some, to be invalid - opting rather for the appropriate hybrid formula. I am also beginning to lean this way, myself.

If you choose to opt for these formula, in lieu of the quasi-official botanical names given to some of the primary hybrids found in the wild - you may find it simpler, or perhaps not.

Hybrid formula can be written in several ways:

The symbols designating the sexes of the parents can be used and the parents can then be written in any order, even alphabetically --

Sarracenia psittacinaMale.jpg x flavaFemale.jpg

Or they can be written in parent order, with maternal parent listed first --

Sarracenia alata x minor

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I think you can only call this moorei or another natural crossing name when booth plants came from the same locality!i think this is very important,or not ?

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I don't think it matters whether the hybrid is from the wild or man-made.

When you cross a leuco from Perdito whit a flava from Apalachicola ,you get another plant then the real moorei!Moorei is given to locality plants ,it s not given for all Lueco X flava crossings!

Te same for other named crossing out of nature!

This names are given only for that locality place plants,or have i wrong whit this and are all crossings tesame?

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Will, I believe any leuco crossed with any flava may be called ×moorei.

OK then i am wrong and is this not a nature hebryde,thanks

I must know this ,moorei is not even a valid name just like so many other names give to this plants!!

Edited by will9
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Oh, but it is a natural hybrid, no mater if the hybrid is natural or man-made, all may be called S. ×moorei.

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Oh, but it is a natural hybrid,

Hi Amar ,not make to difficult ,it can not if you cross 2 different localitys! NEVER!! Like you say ,moorei is a general name for all flava x leuco crossings ,but this are not nature hybrides!

It s like you named a plant whitout locality data and you say it s from Perdito,or when you cross leuco Perdito x leuco Milton Bay and saying its leuco Perdito becausse the seeds are from leuco Perdito,but this is only a cross whitout any locality,when you talk abouth a wildcrossing then this must be cross whit booth plants from this locality.If you not do this ,it s only a cross but for sure not a nature hybride.

You can call everything moorei,it s not registred,so this name mains notthing.

You can only have a nature hybride when you have a moorei whit a locality place ,if this came from a trustfull seller;

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Willy, I don't think localities come into it. S. x moorei is a natural hybrid, because it does happen in nature. But if I were to pollinate a leuco with a flava, theresulting offspring would be mooreis, no matter what the locations. However, if I did it, then those plants wouldn't be natural hybrids becasue I did it. We only call it a natural hybrid becasue it does hybridise in nature.

Of course, no one should ever make up localities for a plant; that would be very irresponsible!

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I think something is getting lost in translation as they say.

I have a few moorei's grown from wild collected seed.I always state with my plants if they are wild seed grown(location provided)as willy says these are natural hybrids created in one location by the pollinators(bees)in that area.

Moorei's can be man made too,it is a very popular cross. If someone does this cross in the greenhouse,they should write down all the information about the cross they can provide for future reference.

If it is from two different location plants,it should be labelled as such. i.e s.leucophylla,Freeport x s.flava,shallotte (moorei)all this information can then be passed on to any other grower that buys or swaps the plant.

But they are all moorei's,some people just like to have all the information they can about the plants they grow.nothing wrong in that.

ada

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Willy, I don't think localities come into it. S. x moorei is a natural hybrid, because it does happen in nature. But if I were to pollinate a leuco with a flava, theresulting offspring would be mooreis, no matter what the locations. However, if I did it, then those plants wouldn't be natural hybrids becasue I did it. We only call it a natural hybrid becasue it does hybridise in nature.

Of course, no one should ever make up localities for a plant; that would be very irresponsible!

Hi James ,thats what i trying to say,but you can make tesame hybride when you have 2 different species from the same locality,then you have the real hybride.It must not came from nature !

I have still problems whit the names off carnivores ,there is not any other kind off genus that have so many not valid names,everybody can give names so match he want if you add a pic from this on the forum,this came on photophinder and you have allready a new name.

Whit cacti and succulents it s difference ,there are only a few people that give names and mostly this names are allways registred before she give it.

This many names for carnivores works very confused ,the are more not valid names then valid,i hope one day somebody makes a big revision off this,for moment it s a chaos.

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I wouldn't say it's chaos - you just need to learn the names of the 20 or so primary hybrids. It's just shorthand.

Remember most plants can't be hybridised like sarracenia, so naming conventions will be simpler.

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I wouldn't say it's chaos - you just need to learn the names of the 20 or so primary hybrids. It's just shorthand.

Remember most plants can't be hybridised like sarracenia, so naming conventions will be simpler.

And what whit the 200 other names from sarras and the 200 more for dionea + a few drosera that have not existing names,also a lot from pings ,from neps i not know .

So i give it up ,i think i go no longer discused abouth this it s have no use :sun_bespectacled:

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200 names for sarracenia?

Have you ever see on photofinder?I count 150 names and i was only to the C ,there are many more names ,i say 200,i not count this ,i think at least 500 names for sarracenias,

i talk abouth all names given to sarra plants or crossings not abouth registred names.

Whit dionea it s the same ,match more like 200 names !

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They're all here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sarra...#Common_hybrids

Learn them and then you can describe any sarracenia in the world!

Whilst I do think Will is 'making a mountain out of a mole hill'.

I'm sorry Alexis, but that is simply not true. There are 28 possible primary hybrids (or more if you count the 'new' species) and that link only lists 22 of them. And then there are all the hundreds if not thousands of possible complex hybrids.

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It's a jigsaw though Phil. It's just a matter of putting the pieces together to describe the cross, so it doesn't matter how complex the hybrid is.

I googled that wikipedia link in 3 seconds, so I'm not surprised there are gaps. But you only actually need to know the species names to list any hybrids anyway at the end of the day.

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