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Geoff

VFT 'patches' What is a plant worth???

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Hi,

Ok everyone let's have some input here.

What is a vft patches plant worth? How do you put a price on something like this? This is the problem.

People have asked why has this plant not been introduced into the northern hemisphere?

Answer: Lack of plants, Lack of time and complicated phyto procedure.

Just to refresh your memories here are some more pics.

patches29-11-08001.jpg

Plants004.jpg

patches29-11-08069Small.jpg

I am looking forward to the discussion.

Geoff

Edited by Geoff

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a plant like that i'd imagine growers in Europe would pay in excess of 50 Euro. easy. for small 4cm plants at that.

I'm sure a hand full of people would be willing to pay for the plant to be brought over and propagated.

I personally don't have the spare cash since it's so close to Christmas. But if it was here to buy, i would imagine i'd pay the 50 for the plant.

maybe i'm wrong, just my view..

ron.

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Its worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. Its like art. If the people with big money to spend like it its worth alot, if the people with big money to spend dont like it its next to worthless.

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Hi

If so much people want them in the northern hemisphere and want to pay a good price, why does the phyto don't be profitable?

How much people will must be if that you make phyto papers?

Bye Thomas

PS. Thats are the old pics from2006?

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Hi

If so much people want them in the northern hemisphere and want to pay a good price, why does the phyto don't be profitable?

How much people will must be if that you make phyto papers?

Bye Thomas

PS. Thats are the old pics from2006?

yes new pics are important. As without them it could just be another fly-by-night cultivar that looks promising then turns out to be a red line

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yes new pics are important. As without them it could just be another fly-by-night cultivar that looks promising then turns out to be a red line

I posted new/recent pictures of this plant in the "Charley Mandon" topic.

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if you asked to me last years i said i can pay it 40 euros, but now i have spotty and now in europe we have charly mandon spotted, and this plant is very similar for me;

Edited by toimeme

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if you asked to me last years i said i can pay it 40 euros, but now i have spotty and now in europe we have charly mandon spotted, and this plant is very similar for me.

Edited by toimeme

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Hi Geoff, I feel that the domestic market (Australia) could probably afford $25-$35 for a mature plant such as this. It's certainly worthy of a higher end price here due to it's unique appearance and rarity in cultivation. While plants that look simlar to Patches can be obtained fairly readily overseas, they are still not readily available here - I suspect that the usual laws of supply and demand will dictate price.

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I personally would pay 50 euros if I was the first recipient of the plant. In another case seems an excessive price, and I think like toimeme, the Dionaea 'Charly mandon spotted' is very similar.

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To my eyes too many of these over priced VFTs looked like they are either aphid damaged (wacky traps etc) or virus infected (which some may well be!!) Much prefer a healthy plant with large normal traps. :)

bill

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For those of you who may think I may be misleading anyone here are some pictures I have literally taken 20 minutes ago.

The traps are still young and are still forming their patches.

The vft's they are resting on are B52's.

VFTpatches10-11-101-1.jpg

VFTpatches10-11-102.jpg

VFTpatches10-11-104.jpg

VFTpatches10-11-106.jpg

Geoff

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Hi Geoff

Very nice and wounderful plants. Thanks for sharing.

There are many flowers at the patches. Do you propangate over seeds or leaf cuttings?

Maybe its stabil over seeds?

Bye Thomas

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Hi Geoff

Very nice and wounderful plants. Thanks for sharing.

There are many flowers at the patches. Do you propangate over seeds or leaf cuttings?

Maybe its stabil over seeds?

Bye Thomas

Hi Thomas,

Seeds are viable and do germinate. Plants are growing well but are still small and I haven't noticed patches yet. The only vegetative propagation I have done is by back bulb division. Plants do retain their patches by this method.

The main reason for not too many plants being available is I only had 1 plant originally and being desperate for 2 plants (safety in numbers) I did a back bulb division while the plant was quite small. I nearly lost both plants and for 2 seasons they sulked until they began growing again. Also there is a question of priority and time. Running a nursery etc is quite time consuming and the 'patches' always seems to get pushed to the bottom of priorities.

Patches is not the typical 'mutant' vft it is a vigorous grower and has no deformation in traps or leaves, it is no where near like 'spotty'. The patches are only inside the trap and no where else. Basically it is a normal vft (whatever normal is ) it is just that the pigmentation within the trap is erratic.

Geoff

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nice pics geoff. i also will do some divisions of my patches and try to spread them little bit

Hi Jens, make sure you keep them alive with all the cold weather you are having. I do not know how people can live with minus 9C. Maybe nice to visit but I would hate to live there.

Geoff

Edited by Geoff

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Yes Jens does have a few of these plants, 2 are already spoken for the rest I am going to use as swaps. So if anyone has anything to swap contact Jens.

As for the sale of these I have decided to auction on ebay 6 plants, 4 for the Northern Hemisphere and 2 for Australia only. I have never auctioned a plant before so constructive comments would be appreciated. I figure the market will set its own price and this is the fairest way. I am thinking 4 auctions and the person who wins a plant cannot bid on another so 4 different people have a plant. I already sell a few plants on ebay under my nursery name Living Traps and the auction will be under this name.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Venus-Fly-Trap-vari...=item3a605b9f0c

Geoff

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Hi Jens, make sure you keep them alive with all the cold weather you are having. I do not know how people can live with minus 9C. Maybe nice to visit but I would hate to live there.

Geoff

Hi Geoff,

the weather actually got as savage as that here last Winter. Although the CPs I keep are hardy (mainly Cephs & Dionaea) ,when it got severe I introduced just a little warmth into the greenhouse via a parrafin heater,just being sensible as far as I'm concerned.

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Really nice plant, but spots are not the same of 'Charly Mandon's Spotted''s one, they're bigger and fewer on 'Patches' .

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Yeah, it's pretty. Do I want one? No.

I'm sure that my opinion will seem like a wet blanket over all the interest in this plant.

To me it looks like "Patches" is infected with a virus that is causing the variegation. Virus-caused variegation is fairly common in the plant world. I'll bet the same virus also causes the variegation in the Venus Flytraps "Spotty" and "Charly Mandon's Spotted."

If this characteristic were genetic, it seems that the trait would have appeared in at least a few of the previous generations of Venus Flytraps, the parents or ancestors of the current plant in question. Growers would already be familiar with the trait, and in fact they are familiar with such virus-caused variegation in other plants. If on the other hand it is a rare genetic mutation, then it seems odd that at least three such similar "rare" genetic mutations have occured in the last several years to produce Patches, Spotty, and Charly Mandon's Spotted (and I'll bet there are more). To me this seems more likely to be a relatively rare virus being spread fairly efficiently with the help of human growers. :D

So what is Patches worth? Well, in my case, I wouldn't want Patches among my own Venus Flytraps at any price unless and until it were proven with almost 100% certainty by laboratory tests that the plant is not infected with a virus.

That's just me.

Edited by xscd

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Thats a very interesting and valid point.I will say though that i have seen plants that have a virus and they always look sickly and weak.In addition they slowly go downhill untill finaly,inevitably,they die.

On the other hand i have grown spotty now for a year or two and it has always grown healthy and strong with no sign of disease or weakness.Also patches,from the photos ive seen,looks similarly healthy and strong.

Also its often the case these days that in nurseries,where many thousands of these plants are propogated,a single plant will be noticed and picked out for its unusual properties.So we are artificialy increasing the odds of such plants being noticed and protected.

Edited by wallsg7

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I agree with you wallsg7, as 'Spotty' and 'Patches', 'Charly Mandon's Spotted' grows healthy and strong .

If spots were the result of a disease, all plants of a collection could be infected by such a 'Spotted virus' ; but there's just three spotted plants .

Xscd, how can you explain that 'Spotty' leaf cuttings all turn back in typical VFTs, and that back bulb division are only able to transmit the spotted character ?..

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Regarding a virus infection of said plants, well I would stake my entire collection that they are not. Why? because "Patches" is from Geoff,and "Spotty" is from Guillaume ( I can't speak for the Charley Mandon plant), Both Geoff and Guillaume are not only expert growers but would deffinitly know how to diagnose a virus in a plant, they wouldn't have come forward to allert us to these plants without having confidence in their stability. I would imagine a virus infected plant would have only one way to go-downhill, but these plants have been stable and are going uphill. These plants look lovely ,I just don't understand any negativity towards them, perhaps "Eden Black" is viewed as the Leper of cephalotus by some, I for one think not.

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Lot of growers specially american one think spotty is virus infected, that make me laught and if it's a virus i cross my fingers this splendid virus spread on all my collection, dentate spotted, long teeth spotted, fondue spotted, coquillage spotted, that would be great or amazing.

Edited by toimeme

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