Nepenthes thorelii paper

[Sockhom]

Hello,

Here is one of my last papers. It is an account on N. thorelii . It summarizes all our current knowledge on this enigmatic species. It has been published in the appendix of Stewart McPherson's last book.

http://www.carnivorousplants.it/thorelii.history.pdf

Cheers,

François.

[James O'Neill]

An excellent paper. Hopefully the N. thorelli has not been poached out of existence, and will still be yet to be saved by experts such as yourself.

[numpty]

Very interesting! Good work in disentangling the convoluted history of "thorelii". Fingers crossed it's still out there somewhere, and that it's re-discovered soon by a more responsible party than the folk that dug up the last batch of candidates.

Edited August 18, 2010 by numpty

[Delwin]

I hate to break this news. From the latest infor from Vietnam, the site which the last thorelii was found was gone.

Those 3 plants which was pounched 2 had die. One is in Singapore, growing well.

The place which the thorelii was around sea level, growing beside bushes of grass.

I hope that thorelii will not be extincted.

[James O'Neill]

Do you know where that last thorelii is?

Edited August 18, 2010 by James O'Neill

[Delwin]

Do you know where that last thorelli is?

My mother-in-law sister just live around there lol

[numpty]

My mother-in-law sister just live around there lol

But really, you know the background to this particular plant, and know for sure that it's one of the plants that was poached from Vietnam last year? The ones that appeared in the pictures with the muddy hands?

[James O'Neill]

Because it is important if you do know the thorelii.

Edited August 18, 2010 by James O'Neill

[Delwin]

But really, you know the background to this particular plant, and know for sure that it's one of the plants that was poached from Vietnam last year? The ones that appeared in the pictures with the muddy hands?

Told you, 2 was died one is in SG:P

[Delwin]

Because it is important if you do know the thorelii.

I only know the location after Sockhom went there. For what i know, the place had been developed.

[James O'Neill]

Yes, but you say the last is in Singapore, how do you know this? You also know that it is growing well.

Is there any more info on the exact whereabouts?

[Delwin]

Yes, but you say the last is in Singapore, how do you know this? You also know that it is growing well.

Is there any more info on the exact whereabouts?

That is pravite, i dont think can know anything. By the way, why you want to know?? And what you want to know??

[Sockhom]

An excellent paper. Hopefully the N. thorelli has not been poached out of existence, and will still be yet to be saved by experts such as yourself.

Thanks! I hope some people will read the paper. ;-) Especially the horticultural history part. Thus, they will understand all the confusion about those cultivated "thorelii".

All the best,

François.

[Drosera5150]

Hey Socky,

I've read your paper and it is great.

Keep them coming,

Brian

[numpty]

That is pravite, i dont think can know anything. By the way, why you want to know?? And what you want to know??

He wants to know because you say you know where (possibly) the last N. thorelii is. Anyone with an interest in this plant would want to know whether the information is accurate, or just a vague "friend of a friend says" type rumour.

Surely you can't be surprised that someone shows curiosity about this ...

(By the way, sorry to take this off the topic of François' paper.)

[Tim Caldwell]

Surely you can't be surprised that someone shows curiosity about this ...

Yes, I don't think fourteen year old James was planning on mounting an expedition from Ireland to Southeast Asia to steal the last surviving wild N. thoreliis :-)

Edited August 19, 2010 by Tim Caldwell

[James O'Neill]

Certainly not - I might be mischievous but not all as much as that!!

[Milos Sula]

There are still some seeds from the Tay Ninh province ( grown in vitro and in vivo ). If they will not turn to be hybrids it will be great.

[Delwin]

With the increasing of pounchers, ease of transportation and the rarity of this plant, it is not suprise to know others might have gone that far. This is to be safe to the plant. It cant take anymore risk. But sure thing is that it is not a friend of friend say.

The last surviving one is not in the wild, who might know there are more to be discovered. Atleast it is not in the hand of plant merchents. The first cutting are already passed out to a hobbist, so if the plant is growing well, there will be more cutting giving out to those that had very good experience with growing neps. This is just like the seeds i am giving out to ensure the plants will live on and to stop merchants selling these plant which make it valuable. One thing for sure, if you have tons of cash, but with just a few years of growing, then you might have to wait for another 10 years before you will get the cutting. Unless the plant merchent got to another site which have another population of thorelli, that you will have to pray hard. I am not pointing to anyone, if you feel guilty or angry, just swallow it, this is a fact.

[marcello catalano]

Good point Delwin: so this guy will spread cuttings of his plant for free or for a very low price to expert growers, they will make even more cuttings and they will eventually introduce this plant to the general pubblic for a very low price. That's good.

Shame it's just one clone, not useful for conservation. Hopefully we'll find some more colonies in the wild in the next 10 years :)

In the mean time, a few suggestions for your cuttings:

1) a compost of coarse sand and perlite in equal parts gave me and others the best results ever, as it remains open, well drained, doesn't rot and doesn't get waterlogged, all things that help rooting a lot. When the cutting has rooted and the first few leaves appear, the cutting can be moved to your favourite compost.

2) many people think that the more leaves you leave on a cutting, the more "reserve" it has and the more it's likely to root. But it's the contrary: a piece of stem without roots is more likely to die if it has to sustain many leaves. And even if it roots, you will have new growths from different points of the stem, and you will have to cut those away and make new cuttings. Make your cutting with 1-2 leaves maximum, cutting 1/3 of the leaf to avoid a further loss of water. Keep humidity very high until the cutting starts growing, then decreasing it slowly to normal levels, increasing at the same time the amount of light.

3) start giving away your cuttings in your Country or in other tropical Countries, where the climate is the most favourable.

[Delwin]

Good point Delwin: so this guy will spread cuttings of his plant for free or for a very low price to expert growers, they will make even more cuttings and they will eventually introduce this plant to the general pubblic for a very low price. That's good.

Shame it's just one clone, not useful for conservation. Hopefully we'll find some more colonies in the wild in the next 10 years :)

In the mean time, a few suggestions for your cuttings:

1) a compost of coarse sand and perlite in equal parts gave me and others the best results ever, as it remains open, well drained, doesn't rot and doesn't get waterlogged, all things that help rooting a lot. When the cutting has rooted and the first few leaves appear, the cutting can be moved to your favourite compost.

2) many people think that the more leaves you leave on a cutting, the more "reserve" it has and the more it's likely to root. But it's the contrary: a piece of stem without roots is more likely to die if it has to sustain many leaves. And even if it roots, you will have new growths from different points of the stem, and you will have to cut those away and make new cuttings. Make your cutting with 1-2 leaves maximum, cutting 1/3 of the leaf to avoid a further loss of water. Keep humidity very high until the cutting starts growing, then decreasing it slowly to normal levels, increasing at the same time the amount of light.

3) start giving away your cuttings in your Country or in other tropical Countries, where the climate is the most favourable.

Thks for sharing the cutting tips. Tried with perlite, but doesnt work here because of the high humidity. So we use peat, pine bark, rice husk and coconut husk. The next cutting has to go back to Vietnam as promised to the owner of this plant. This plant is a very fast grower. I really hope that the next finding will be another group whom is studying in the university in Vietnam. They will have the government protect the place.

Yes, the no. 2 is a good point, this is to prevent exccess water loss from the plant. There is another way is to cut off 2/3 of the leaf, then just leave the pot in a tank, it will grow very fast. when it has a little growth, add a little bit of fertilizer.

[James O'Neill]

Does this mean that thorelii is not extinct after all?

[marcello catalano]

James, Nepenthes are male and female, as you probably know, so having one plant in cultivation doesn't mean much to protect it against extinction :)

What we really hope is to find it again in the wild. I really don't believe in the government of Vietnam protecting a rural area from the poachers who want to dig out Nepenthes thorelii, doesn't sound realistic. But getting seeds to create new colonies in new hidden areas might be the solution.

Delwin, not to be out of topic, but what do you mean with "perlite doesn't work because the climate is too humid"? That's not supposed to be a problem with perlite... And if it is, it should be even worse with organic materials like the ones you're using...

[James O'Neill]

I see. It is good that it has not completely died out anyway.

[numpty]

I guess it still has to be confirmed that this Nep in Singapore is the true thorelii - even if it is one of the plants that were dug up in Vietnam last year - since nobody was able to examine them and compare them to the herbarium specimen to give a positive ID. So I guess we still have to wait and see? Or is there new information on this?