Lighting for small 18" terrarium

[PurplePitchers]

Hi, I'm planning on setting up a small terrarium to grow cephalotus and drosera. What type of lighting do you guys recommend?

I was thinking of using this: http://www.growell.co.uk/p/1582/CFL-Lead-a...lete-kits-.html - a 125 watt CFL.

What do you think?

Cheers

Edited August 5, 2010 by ceph123

[PurplePitchers]

Anyone?

[johns]

Here is one recent thread: http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=36696

Anyway, I have a terrarium (actually a modified aquarium) which isn't that much bigger than yours (around 23-25" wide). I use a T5 HO fixture intended for aquariums, with a reflector and two 24W T5 HO tubes (50cm wide). The plant trays are on a raised platform so that the top of the pots are 20cm below the lights. This is enough to give good colouration to Drosera aliciae and Pinguicula cyclosecta. Butterworts which require more light to colour up such as P. 'Aphrodite' and gracilis x moctezumae get a red tint. In the centre of the terrarium (directly under the tubes) a light meter shows around 12000 lux. On the edge it's about 7000 lux.

It's definitely a good idea to have a plexiglass plate or similar under the tubes, it helps both to keep the heat down and the humidity up. If I'd move the plants even higher up the light would of course increase (but so would the heat).

125W sounds like a lot for such a small terrarium. Anyway, hope this helps.

[PurplePitchers]

Here is one recent thread: http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=36696

Anyway, I have a terrarium (actually a modified aquarium) which isn't that much bigger than yours (around 23-25" wide). I use a T5 HO fixture intended for aquariums, with a reflector and two 24W T5 HO tubes (50cm wide). The plant trays are on a raised platform so that the top of the pots are 20cm below the lights. This is enough to give good colouration to Drosera aliciae and Pinguicula cyclosecta. Butterworts which require more light to colour up such as P. 'Aphrodite' and gracilis x moctezumae get a red tint. In the centre of the terrarium (directly under the tubes) a light meter shows around 12000 lux. On the edge it's about 7000 lux.

It's definitely a good idea to have a plexiglass plate or similar under the tubes, it helps both to keep the heat down and the humidity up. If I'd move the plants even higher up the light would of course increase (but so would the heat).

125W sounds like a lot for such a small terrarium. Anyway, hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply johns. On many of the websites I have looked at, 125w is the lowest wattage supplied. Does anyone have any experience with CFLs?

[johns]

Thanks for the reply johns. On many of the websites I have looked at, 125w is the lowest wattage supplied. Does anyone have any experience with CFLs?

I suggest that you search for envirolite on the forum. If I've understood correctly they are equivalent to the CFL you're considering, so some of the results should be helpful.

[petesredtraps]

These are on Ebay- LED Hydroponic Grow Light 450 Lumens Red & Blue E27 ,are they any good?

[mobile]

Hi, I'm planning on setting up a small terrarium to grow cephalotus and drosera. What type of lighting do you guys recommend?

I was thinking of using this: http://www.growell.co.uk/p/1582/CFL-Lead-a...lete-kits-.html - a 125 watt CFL.

What do you think?

Cheers

The wattage would be far too high for such a small terrarium. I think you would struggle to keep plants from cooking with the heat generated from the lamp. These types of growlamps are just large compact flourescents, basically an upscaled version of the compact flourescents you can buy from DIY stores. The 'red' growlamps are usually 2700 Kelvin, which is the same colour temperature as a standard 'warm white' compact flourescent and the 'blue' ones are 6500 kelvin, which is the same as a 'daylight' compact flourescent. Given this, you might be better to use a standard compact flourescent with a lower wattage. My Cephalotus terrarium is 18" and I use four 300mm (8W) linear flourescents but I am considering changing them for compact flourescents due to the unrealiablity of the fittings that I currently use.

[johns]

The wattage would be far too high for such a small terrarium. I think you would struggle to keep plants from cooking with the heat generated from the lamp. These types of growlamps are just large compact flourescents, basically an upscaled version of the compact flourescents you can buy from DIY stores. The 'red' growlamps are usually 2700 Kelvin, which is the same colour temperature as a standard 'warm white' compact flourescent and the 'blue' ones are 6500 kelvin, which is the same as a 'daylight' compact flourescent. Given this, you might be better to use a standard compact flourescent with a lower wattage. My Cephalotus terrarium is 18" and I use four 300mm (8W) linear flourescents but I am considering changing them for compact flourescents due to the unrealiablity of the fittings that I currently use.

What about surface area of CFLs vs linear fluorescents? I used CFLs for a while (6W less wattage and poor light mounting so can't compare directly), the light was OK just below the bulbs but dropped sharply to the sides. The larger surface area of tubes give a more even light distribution (though the edges are a dark spot, only half the light as in the centre).

[PurplePitchers]

The wattage would be far too high for such a small terrarium. I think you would struggle to keep plants from cooking with the heat generated from the lamp. These types of growlamps are just large compact flourescents, basically an upscaled version of the compact flourescents you can buy from DIY stores. The 'red' growlamps are usually 2700 Kelvin, which is the same colour temperature as a standard 'warm white' compact flourescent and the 'blue' ones are 6500 kelvin, which is the same as a 'daylight' compact flourescent. Given this, you might be better to use a standard compact flourescent with a lower wattage. My Cephalotus terrarium is 18" and I use four 300mm (8W) linear flourescents but I am considering changing them for compact flourescents due to the unrealiablity of the fittings that I currently use.

Thanks for the reply mobile, where did you get your lights from? Could you post a pic of your terrarium?

Cheers

[mobile]

Thanks for the reply mobile, where did you get your lights from? Could you post a pic of your terrarium?

Cheers

Sorry for the late reply. Here's some (not very good) pictures.

Overview:

Hummer's Giants:

Big Boys

[petesredtraps]

Sorry for the late reply. Here's some (not very good) pictures.

Overview:

Hummer's Giants:

Big Boys

That looks superb.

[PurplePitchers]

What about this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/45w-Blue-Spectrum-64...tsSeedsBulbs_JN

A 45 watt CFL, would this be about the right wattage?

[PurplePitchers]

What about this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/45w-Blue-Spectrum-64...tsSeedsBulbs_JN

A 45 watt CFL, would this be about the right wattage?

Can anyone tell me if this is suitable?

[mobile]

Unfortunately, no one will be able to answer your question accurately without seeing the spectral distribution graph of the particular lamp. The colour temperature and wattage tells you nothing about how much energy is available in the spectra required for photosynthesis.

There is a 65w Blue Spectrum 6400k CFL in another recent forum thread, where the Heliamphora growing under it looks like it is lacking light, in my opinion, so this might be an indication that the spectral distribution is not ideal, but who knows without seeing the figures?

[PurplePitchers]

Unfortunately, no one will be able to answer your question accurately without seeing the spectral distribution graph of the particular lamp. The colour temperature and wattage tells you nothing about how much energy is available in the spectra required for photosynthesis.

There is a 65w Blue Spectrum 6400k CFL in another recent forum thread, where the Heliamphora growing under it looks like it is lacking light, in my opinion, so this might be an indication that the spectral distribution is not ideal, but who knows without seeing the figures?

Sorry, but I don't have any experience of grow lights, what exactly is a spectral distribution graph?

Thanks

Elliot

[PurplePitchers]

This seems like a good deal:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/25w-6400k-Blue-Spect...tsSeedsBulbs_JN

2 25 watt CFLs for £8.99, and free p&p.

[mobile]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectral_power_distribution

Basically it is a graph showing the distribution of the lamp wattage across the light spectrum. Plants only need certain wavelengths to photosynthesise and these are primarily blue and red, the specific ones are shown HERE. The same link also explains why colour temperature and wattage are not necessarily good indicators for plant growth. Without seeing the spectral distribution it would be impossible to know how much wattage is used to produce green light which is not very useful, if at all, for plant growth. Manufacturers tend to emphasise the green light in fluorescents as the human eye is most sensitive to this colour and conveniently blue phosphors are cheap to produce.

[PurplePitchers]

Mobile, what lights do you recommend that aren't too expensive? Where did you get your t5's from?

Sorry for being such a nuisance.

Cheers

Elliot

[vraev]

Hi,

I have been recently in the market for lights and tried to do a bit of research into the perfect lighting for indoor plants.

Here is the absorption spectrum for a variety of plant pigments. (Courtesy of my friend Butch Tincher who "found" it)

However, do remember that these observations are based on pure pigment molecules in a test tube. Whether this remains accurate to the "leaf" as a whole system is unknown. But, it does give us an idea of the light bulbs we can aim for.

First of all, one thing is for sure: the predominant pigments involved in photosynthesis: Chlorophyll a & b have two absorption peaks within the blue and the red regions. Everthing else, especially the green region of "white light" is reflected away. However, you do have to remember that plants use a lot of other accessory molecules to grow and survive. Even though chlorophyll pigments ignore the green/yellow regions, accessory molecules like B-carotene and phycoerythrin absorb high quantities of green and yellow regions of "white light". Also remember that the red color which most of us treasure in our plants is caused by the pigment Anthrocyanin in plants. Since it is visible as red, I guess its safe to say that the molecular structures which contain these pigments will primarily utilize other regions of white light and ignore the red regions. Moreover, be absolutely clear that the ideal spectral absorption of one plant species may be completely different to that of another.

Make no mistake, the best kind of artificial light you can provide to your plants is complete white light. (I am uncertain if plants utilize any other regions of the light spectrum that doesn't fall within visible light) Hence obtain wide-spectrum bulbs from 6500-10000K and as many as you can to allow your plants to pick and choose whatever they require.

However, as in my case, if you have limited resources and limited room and need to maximize efficincy, you need to remember that their primary pigment chlorophyll that is associated in photosynthesis doesn't utilize any green regions of light. To cater this, pick lights that have higher emission spectra in the blue and red regions. Note that the emission spectrum of standard flouroscent lights resembles a normal distribution with peaks in the green region of the spectrum. Aquarium light bulbs are made with rare earth phosphors that emit certain wavelengths of light and can fit our demands to selectively supply certain wavelengths of light.

However, don't make the mistake I made (Luckily it was short-lived): Do not buy actinic bulbs that deliver pure blue light. After extensive reading up on testimonials and experiences from users (non-scientific), it seems that high quantities of blue light can infact increase the internodal distance in plants. These lights are necessary in salt-water aquariums with corals to efficiently deliver necessary quantities of blue light as corals have evolved to utilize this region of the spectrum. But, there is no evidence of benefit in terrestrial plants.

Hence, currently my suggestion (And what I am utilizing myself) is a mixture of light sources all of which span the visible spectrum with noticable broad peaks in blue and red spectra with other bulbs that can provide higher peaks in the other regions of the spectrum. I am trying for myself a combination of 6700K daylight, 10000K daylight, colormax and lifeglo. These are expensive T5 lights that came at a considerable cost. However, this is just my attempt and experiment to see if I can maximize the color/growth in my plants by being selective in the light spectra that I provide to them.

As a disclaimer, this is just something that I have done for myself as my plants progressively declined under cool-white T5 flouroscent tubes in the past year. Before that I managed to obtain fantastic results with daylight 6500K philips CFL and T8 flouroscents. However, they are insufficient to light my current re-designed grow area. However, if you do have a small area to light...be assured that the common philips daylight CFL/T8 lights can do a fantastic job in producing great plants.

with regards,

Varun

PS: The pictures below are atleast an year old. As I mentioned, my plants haven't been too happy with the change in conditions since past september. But all those colors were produced under the philips bulb. Distance under T8 bulbs: 8" Distance for red color in ceph:5"

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1067/635571...a9389e42b_z.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/362145...062677463_z.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/307061...f47e_z.jpg?zz=1

RIP: I killed that fantastic cobra (My first and only one by a horrendous dormancy attempt outside in my balcony)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2668/418532...e389b7c7c_z.jpg

Edited August 26, 2010 by vraev

[PurplePitchers]

Hi,

I have been recently in the market for lights and tried to do a bit of research into the perfect lighting for indoor plants.

Here is the absorption spectrum for a variety of plant pigments. (Courtesy of my friend Butch Tincher who "found" it)

However, do remember that these observations are based on pure pigment molecules in a test tube. Whether this remains accurate to the "leaf" as a whole system is unknown. But, it does give us an idea of the light bulbs we can aim for.

First of all, one thing is for sure: the predominant pigments involved in photosynthesis: Chlorophyll a & b have two absorption peaks within the blue and the red regions. Everthing else, especially the green region of "white light" is reflected away. However, you do have to remember that plants use a lot of other accessory molecules to grow and survive. Even though chlorophyll pigments ignore the green/yellow regions, accessory molecules like B-carotene and phycoerythrin absorb high quantities of green and yellow regions of "white light". Also remember that the red color which most of us treasure in our plants is caused by the pigment Anthrocyanin in plants. Since it is visible as red, I guess its safe to say that the molecular structures which contain these pigments will primarily utilize other regions of white light and ignore the red regions. Moreover, be absolutely clear that the ideal spectral absorption of one plant species may be completely different to that of another.

Make no mistake, the best kind of artificial light you can provide to your plants is complete white light. (I am uncertain if plants utilize any other regions of the light spectrum that doesn't fall within visible light) Hence obtain wide-spectrum bulbs from 6500-10000K and as many as you can to allow your plants to pick and choose whatever they require.

However, as in my case, if you have limited resources and limited room and need to maximize efficincy, you need to remember that their primary pigment chlorophyll that is associated in photosynthesis doesn't utilize any green regions of light. To cater this, pick lights that have higher emission spectra in the blue and red regions. Note that the emission spectrum of standard flouroscent lights resembles a normal distribution with peaks in the green region of the spectrum. Aquarium light bulbs are made with rare earth phosphors that emit certain wavelengths of light and can fit our demands to selectively supply certain wavelengths of light.

However, don't make the mistake I made (Luckily it was short-lived): Do not buy actinic bulbs that deliver pure blue light. After extensive reading up on testimonials and experiences from users (non-scientific), it seems that high quantities of blue light can infact increase the internodal distance in plants. These lights are necessary in salt-water aquariums with corals to efficiently deliver necessary quantities of blue light as corals have evolved to utilize this region of the spectrum. But, there is no evidence of benefit in terrestrial plants.

Hence, currently my suggestion (And what I am utilizing myself) is a mixture of light sources all of which span the visible spectrum with noticable broad peaks in blue and red spectra with other bulbs that can provide higher peaks in the other regions of the spectrum. I am trying for myself a combination of 6700K daylight, 10000K daylight, colormax and lifeglo. These are expensive T5 lights that came at a considerable cost. However, this is just my attempt and experiment to see if I can maximize the color/growth in my plants by being selective in the light spectra that I provide to them.

As a disclaimer, this is just something that I have done for myself as my plants progressively declined under cool-white T5 flouroscent tubes in the past year. Before that I managed to obtain fantastic results with daylight 6500K philips CFL and T8 flouroscents. However, they are insufficient to light my current re-designed grow area. However, if you do have a small area to light...be assured that the common philips daylight CFL/T8 lights can do a fantastic job in producing great plants.

with regards,

Varun

PS: The pictures below are atleast an year old. As I mentioned, my plants haven't been too happy with the change in conditions since past september. But all those colors were produced under the philips bulb. Distance under T8 bulbs: 8" Distance for red color in ceph:5"

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1067/635571...a9389e42b_z.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/362145...062677463_z.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/307061...f47e_z.jpg?zz=1

RIP: I killed that fantastic cobra (My first and only one by a horrendous dormancy attempt outside in my balcony)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2668/418532...e389b7c7c_z.jpg

Thanks for the info Varun, may I ask where I can purchase the Phillips CFL's? And what wattage do you suggest?

Also, what fittings should I use?

Cheers

Elliot

[vraev]

Hi Elliot,

I am unsure of the availability in UK, but over here we have hardware stores called Home Depot and Canadian Tire. There you can find both 13watt and 27watt and even 9 watt. But i selected the highest i.e., 27watt. It does produce a bit of heat, but shouldn't be a problem if you place it outside your tank. Moreover, what size of a tank are you planning to use? In the past I had grown VFTs with great success/color in a 2.5 gallon tank with two CFL table lamps. If you check you might perhaps find this locally:

http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/compact_top.php

That can perfectly meet your requirements. Although...Make sure that you don't close off the entire tank. In my experience, cephs LOVE and require good air circulation, without which they can succumb to rot. So, its a fine balance by using a small fan, high light, relatively moderate (75-80F day temps/60-65F night temps) temperatures.

[PurplePitchers]

Hi Elliot,

I am unsure of the availability in UK, but over here we have hardware stores called Home Depot and Canadian Tire. There you can find both 13watt and 27watt and even 9 watt. But i selected the highest i.e., 27watt. It does produce a bit of heat, but shouldn't be a problem if you place it outside your tank. Moreover, what size of a tank are you planning to use? In the past I had grown VFTs with great success/color in a 2.5 gallon tank with two CFL table lamps. If you check you might perhaps find this locally:

http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/compact_top.php

That can perfectly meet your requirements. Although...Make sure that you don't close off the entire tank. In my experience, cephs LOVE and require good air circulation, without which they can succumb to rot. So, its a fine balance by using a small fan, high light, relatively moderate (75-80F day temps/60-65F night temps) temperatures.

I found the fitting:

http://www.netpetshop.co.uk/p-27338-exo-te...ELAID=525516139

The 45cm one, which will fit the terrarium perfectly, holds 2 bulbs.

I am still struggling to find the bulbs, will regular energy savers be ok?

Update:

I found a 18w daylight CFL, would this be suitable?

http://www.johnlewis.com/150930/Style.aspx

Edited August 27, 2010 by ceph123

[mobile]

The Philips lamps in John Lewis, which are the same as those sold in Homebase, are BC fitting and the cover/lampholder you were looking at is ES (or at least the ones I have seen in pet/reptile shops are), so they won't fit.

If you can't find the spectral distribution for any of the lamps you have looked at then you will either have to rely on reports from someone already using exactly the same lamp (make and model) or take the risk and try them yourself. As already stated, typically higher colour temperature lamps (cool white/daylight) are better than normal (warm white) but no guarantees that they will be suitable.

[PurplePitchers]

I'm really struggling to find spectral graphs for any bulb mobile.

Here is a bulb I found: http://www.philips.co.uk/c/energy-saving-l...=specifications

What do you think?

Elliot

[japetus]

Has anybody tried LED lamps? I was thinking that they could significally save down the costs of the electricity bill..

Some pictures here http://www.growlight.cn/grow-products.asp