Kevin Tonnerre Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 (edited) Today i went to visit two known stations of P. alpina, one also contains D. anglica. Apparently, there are at least two more stations nearby containing P. alpina and P. vulgaris, but i wasnt successful in finding them. So these stations are in the city of Zürich, near the forest, facing south. I found 3 different flower types, so far. Station 1, which had roughly 40 Plants, had only this flower type, consisting of 3 yellow spots Station 2, had at least 250 plants (hard to estimate). This was the dominant flower pattern, with 1 yellow spot However, i found 2 plants with this pattern, where the 3 spots are connected Sideview, sorry for the blurry image Here you can see the somewhat marly substrate Note the amount of flower stalks If you look carefully, you will note the missing glands at the midrib. Thats one of the identification keys of P. alpina A few P. alpina D. anglica, with prey D. anglica again I will definitely visit the locations again, since ive been told that the different flower patterns are also linked to different flowering time/age of the flower, so maybe i will find some more variations among the flower types. Im also quite interested in D. anglica, since it grows in calcareous soil. Unfortunately the plants are barely out of their winter break and they lack in size. Some D. anglica plants that grow in these calcerous fens sometimes show differences in size and flowering habit. For all i know, these (the ones living in calcareous soil) D. anglica are also called D. anglica var. pusilla. Edited August 12, 2010 by Kevin Tonnerre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amar Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 What a nice find! I have yet to find any wild CPs in Switzerland. Greetings vo Basel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisscool_38 Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 (edited) Your pics are too huge to be seen on one screen. Quote For all i know, these (the ones living in calcareous soil) D. anglica are also called D. anglica var. pusilla. Not exactly in my opinion. This is just a smaller D. anglica. It might be related with the nature of soil, but placed in another soil with other strains of D. anglica, it should recover a "normal" size like the others. But all D. anglica are related with a more basidic soil than D. rotundifolia for example. So is D. linearis too. In extrem cases, D. anglica is known to grow on calcareous as we can see here (in french Alps, it often grows on tuffière (I couldn't find a translation sorry)). Edited February 21, 2018 by kisscool_38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebulon Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Hello, Dude, resize your pics! My computer lags like hell trying to load all those pictures. On topic: the tree-spotted P.alpina is cute, I love it. Other pics haven't loaded. Greetings, Jarkko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Tonnerre Posted April 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Hm, Aymeric, i think its simply called tuff. Of course one can debate about the status of D. anglica var. pumila, i hardly have the knowledge start a discussion about this, but i just wanted to point out, that it grows differently than the known form. The leaves are less elongated in shape, as well as the plant as a whole is much smaller and it produces usually just one flower stalk, apparently this behaviour also applies to plants grown from seed and plants grown in normal (i.e acidic) substrate, according to Andreas Fleischmann. Oh, and are the pictures still too big? Otherwise complain...! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebulon Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Oh, and are the pictures still too big? Otherwise complain...! ;-)No, they are excellent now.I think you should take some leaf cuttings from those three-spotted Pinguicula alpina, I think it's different enough from the normal variety to deserve a cultivar status! I would buy that cultivar for sure! It's so beautiful. I can already imagine: Pinguicula alpina 'Tri Star'. Greetings, Jarkko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisscool_38 Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 (edited) Kevin Tonnerre said: Of course one can debate about the status of D. anglica var. pumila, i hardly have the knowledge start a discussion about this, but i just wanted to point out, that it grows differently than the known form. The leaves are less elongated in shape, as well as the plant as a whole is much smaller and it produces usually just one flower stalk, apparently this behaviour also applies to plants grown from seed and plants grown in normal (i.e acidic) substrate, according to Andreas Fleischmann. Drosera anglica is also a very variable plant throughout its growing period. Leaves can display very different shape from early spring (roundier) to late summer (more elongated). The only valuable characters might be the smaller size and so features of the flower stalks, but should be not stable in cultivation I think (this taxon is not in cultivation yet to my knowledge). Quote I think you should take some leaf cuttings from those three-spotted Pinguicula alpina, I think it's different enough from the normal variety to deserve a cultivar status! I would buy that cultivar for sure! It's so beautiful. I can already imagine: Pinguicula alpina 'Tri Star'. As Kevin said, it is not a stable character. The yellow spot shape varies througout flowering season. Some one spot flowers tend to have 3 spots latter and then the 3 points will joined each other. Not a good morphological character. And life cuttings don't work with temperate Pinguicula. Edited February 21, 2018 by kisscool_38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Tonnerre Posted April 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Theoretically, it works with leaves of the winterbud, but practically, that doesnt do the plant any good, so you might as well leave it. Im not so sure about what affects the flower pattern anyway. It seems that it is somewhat related to when the plant flowers and how old the flower is, but the plants of the same population also seem to have a preferred pattern (some open up with 1 Spot, some with 3), like i said in station 1 i had plants with 3 spots, and in station 2 i had a bit more variety, but mainly the flowers had only 1 spot, also the slightly shaded ones that opened up a bit later. And im pretty sure the plants of both stations started flowering at about the same time. However, what i find interesting, is the fact that the exact same plant can have flowers with different patterns. Focus on the flowers Focus on the plant Here an almost yellow one Well, about D. anglica, its definitely worth keeping an eye on. You might want to read this too. Pictures of D. anglica will follow as the growing season continues, hopefully with some flowers too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisscool_38 Posted April 22, 2010 Report Share Posted April 22, 2010 (edited) This was the post I was looking for (but didn't have time to search). It is answering to my question about stability. But you still have to observe this station of D. anglica over 3 years to tell if it belong to this forma or not (might also be a matter of conditions of one particular year, too hot or too cold for exemple. Edited February 21, 2018 by kisscool_38 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel O. Posted April 22, 2010 Report Share Posted April 22, 2010 Hi Kevin, very nice flowers, P. alpina is one of the most beautiful temperate Pinguicula. Thanks for sharing. Best regards, Dani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michi Zehnder Posted May 2, 2010 Report Share Posted May 2, 2010 Hi Last Thursday we visited this nice place again. We were looking for P. vulgaris but unfortunatly we found nothing. Here some photos: D. anglica and P. alpina Michi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Tonnerre Posted May 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 (edited) Another update, in case somebody actually even cares... ;-) Station 1 still has many P. alpina in bloom, while station has around a handful of late P. alpina plants in the shade that are still blooming, the rest formed seedpods. And i actually found P. vulgaris at station 2, they were simply among P. alpina, which was clearly distinguishable once they reached a certain size (P. vulgaris comes out later). There were maybe around 30 plants at best, with some of them blooming right now, which actually leads me to a question: Has anybody of you seen P. x hybrida, the supposed natural hybrid of P. alpina and P. vulgaris, and if yes, do you have a photo? Im asking this because ive seen quite a few mentions in literature of this hybrid, but never have i actually seen it (not even a picture), and seeing that the blooming time can overlap sometimes, im starting to have my doubts, especially considering that the two species are not even closely related. D. anglica of station 2 is quite big in size now, ill go back in its anthesis, to see if it belongs to the discussed calcarous substrate growing D. anglica var. pusilla or not. Oh well, ill go to the photos: A good photo for the comparison of P. vulgaris (on top) and P. alpina (below) P. alpina seedpod, they are distinguishable from other temperate species, by being quite elongated P. vulgaris, its actually quite difficult to capture the right colour with my camera, it should be a little bit more blue more compact, slightly more typical than above sideview and here a deformed one with 6 petals (the picture doesnt demonstrate it well, i admit) Edited May 17, 2010 by Kevin Tonnerre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amar Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 Very nice, thanks a lot, Kevin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoopyLee Posted May 17, 2010 Report Share Posted May 17, 2010 I love looking at photos of plants in their natural habitat, thanks for sharing them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johns Posted May 21, 2010 Report Share Posted May 21, 2010 Nice pictures, thanks for posting. At what altitude is this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Tonnerre Posted May 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2010 Roughly 575 metres above sea level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Rohrbacher Posted May 26, 2010 Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 Hi Kevin. Beauty pinguicula species, thanks for sharing Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Tonnerre Posted May 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2010 (edited) I visited another station in Zürich at roughly 630 metres above sea level, but this one is quite far away from the first two mentioned (9 kilometres). It was very impressive to see ten thousands of Pinguicula vulgaris in bloom! It also had a few orchids. Thats about how it looked all over the field, blooming Pinguicula vulgaris as far as my eyes can see. One thing struck right away me though: The plants in this location are at least twice the size as the plants near my home, and this goes especially for the flower stalks. Its hard to estimate the right dimensions when looking at this picture. It might not be the tallest flower stalk ive seen, but one of the better ones to picture (the surrounding vegetation gets in the way very often). This flower stalk was around 22cm high, but im pretty sure some exceeded 25cm! This size difference might be of ecological origin, since the location near my home is very wet with calcaerous soil, whereas this one ist just slightly moist and the substrate seems to have quite a thick organic lair. Its a calcaerous stone mountain, though. And these plants seem more successful when it comes to attracting insects. flower 1 flower 2 flower 3, a bit of a freak flower, reminds me of the Pinguicula mundi/dertosensis/Hoz de Beteta-complex a cluser of plants There you go. I hope youre not too bored by looking at these common plants. But especially for Pinguicula vulgaris, its quite a variable plant, so i like observing it. Edited November 29, 2010 by Kevin Tonnerre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Rohrbacher Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Thanks again, good pictures! flower stalk was around 22cm high, but im pretty sure some exceeded 25cm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoopyLee Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 I'm definately not bored.. I think they look fantastic in their natural habitat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Tonnerre Posted June 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 (edited) There are two locations of Aldrovanda vesiculosa in Zürich. The plants of both sites were originally from the Bühlweiher in Germany, where it is now extinct, so therefor its very crucial to keep these populations protected. The following images are from one of these swiss sites. Dont be disappointed by the image quality though, it was really challenging to make acceptable pictures without going for a swim, since there were only 3 spots where i could approuch the shore safely. Besides, a polarising filter would have greatly helped minimize the reflections. Regarding the IDs of Utricularia, if Utricularia-experts are watching this thread, feel free to correct me, as i have quite some difficulty IDing flowerless plants. But the genus is really growing on to me, i will revisit this site when its blooming time. A good thing for the plants, but somewhat unfortunate for me, the shore is very hard to access, as the lake/pond is surrounded by dense reed populations. Aldrovanda vesiculosa, next to what i think could be Utricularia bremii, but from this pic im quite unsure of the ID Eventhough not that impressive, its probably still the biggest cluster of plants that i have seen, i guess later in the vegetation period, the lake/pond will be more densely populated. Note how shady the plants live The closest i could get to Aldrovanda The closest i could get to Utricularia australis, the water is quite filthy. The plant was almost on land Separated from the part in which Aldrovanda grows, i found these Utricualria australis in an outlet of the lake, at a very very shady spot under the trees. Surprisingly, the plants do not seem to receive any full sun at all Edited November 29, 2010 by Kevin Tonnerre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Tonnerre Posted June 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2010 (edited) Theres a forest in Zürich which has a few open spots. One spot is a particularily wet Sphagnum bog and is now home to different carnivorous plants, most notably some obviously introduced Sarracenia purpurea. Although impressive and beautiful, im still curious about the effects on the local flora, especially thinking on how well the plants grow here (as opposed to the disappearing of american locations) while native plants seem to slowly decrease in number. Blooming north american pitcher plants (in europe) in high grass Healthy looking plants Cluster of plants Of course, the common Drosera rotundifolia is not missing, especially amongst the Sphagnum mosses As well as Drosera anglica. These only occured at one spot, unfortunately, i didnt find any Drosera x obovata "Terrestrial" Utricularia minor, there were many spots that were barely 1-3 cm deep, but also a lot of puddles here and there, which were mostly inhabited by bladderworts Puddle filled with Utricularia minor Utricularia australis, this one only appeared in the real pond, with deeper water Edited June 11, 2010 by Kevin Tonnerre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johns Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 Amazing, even aldrovanda and S. purpurea. Thanks for posting. You're fortunate to live in an area with so many CPs in the wild. You haven't found any D. x obovata? I thought they were common and easy to find (at least they seem to be in the forest around Oslo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimscott Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 It gives me ideas when seeing their natural habitat. Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Tonnerre Posted June 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 (edited) Im afraid i havent found any Drosera x obovata at that location. Actually, it was the main reason i went to that place, because i have been told, that there should be some hybrids there. But it wasnt easy to find it for many reasons. The location is very wet at certain spots and you really sink into the ground. To reach D. anglica i had to go through such a wet spot (D. rotundifolia is more or less all over the place and S. purpurea on the other side) and once there, i found myself in an area surrounded by very high reeds. Drosera anglica didnt grow directly amongst the reeds, so i didnt bother looking there. And in the midst of all D. anglica, there were also D. rotundifolia, so i certainly expected them to grow exactly there. But nevermind, maybe ill find them next time, but its also possible that they succumbed to the competition in the last few years. Either way, theres another spot i know of, where both specimens live sympatrically and where Drosera x obovata was recorded several times. Maybe Drosera x obovata is more frequent in your latitudes because of the shorter growing peroid and therefore more overlapping blooming times. Its true, for middle european standards, its quite a CP-rich region. Apart from the mentioned Drosera x obovata, i still have to visit the D. intermedia site. Im going to concentrate a bit more on the bladderworts around here when they start flowering. The circumstances are rather unfortunate with the rainy/cold weather of the last few weeks. Anyways, from what i know, U. australis and U. minor are the most common. We also have some sure U. intermedia sites, but some of them are most probably U. stygia that were misidentified in the past. Some U. bremii sites exist too, U. vulgaris is very rare, and U. ochroleuca is not really a sure thing. Edited June 13, 2010 by Kevin Tonnerre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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