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Mr. Son

CP in Viet Nam 2

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all photo and plants of my friend not me ! I could not do it.

many people have criticized me, I will close photo !! I never post photo in here

Edited by Mr. Son

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The hand shovel, soiled hands and uprooted plants pictured are not a good look. :Laie_97:

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Great find, but next time, just take a few cuttings and/or harvest some seed and leave the rooted plants in the wild where you find them. They may even have disease and root parasites such as nematodes that could harm other plants. Cuttings of these plants root in just a few weeks, and seedlings can grow to full maturity within a few short years, and the original plants left in the ground will recover from a few cuttings and the population will remain in tact. - Rich

Edited by rsivertsen

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MY GOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWDDDDDDD!!!!

The first one must be the true N. thorelii!!!!

Or I'm getting too excited....

François.

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The hand shovel, soiled hands and uprooted plants pictured are not a good look. :Laie_97:

Dear Sean,

While I really agree 100 % with you.

I really think we should smoothly trying to "educate" hobbyists from new CP countries.

François.

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Yes I too agree with you 100% Francois. It just doesn't look good on a public forum. What we perceive as ethically wrong is undoubtedly a non-issue in many parts of the world. I shall dismount the moral highhorse.

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What we perceive as ethically wrong is undoubtedly a non-issue in many parts of the world.

Exactly ! What many of us in the West don't appreciate, is that in many of those Countries where 'our beloved plants' grow, they are just considered WEEDS.

SO - Francois, do you really think that many be the true thorelii :Laie_97:

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SO - Francois, do you really think that may be the true thorelii :Laie_97:

Well, as a taxonomist wannabe, I will "professionally" answer: "We'll see once I will observe the plants and collect herbarium samples and studied them."

But my Nepenthes passionate heart and bionic Indochinese eye say: "This is the very thorelii plant I spent so many hours on when I was in Paris herbarium"!

OK, Seriously, If Son is willing to help I will book my flights to Vietnam very very soon. Just have to do (many many) extra hours at work now ;-)) (and convince wife and kids)

Gosh, this is a great day!

François.

Edited by Sockhom

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Hey François, glad to see you're on top of this! It could be a very important find indeed! There just might be more species left to discover in Viet Nam! Let's hope we find them before they go extinct due to habitat destruction! - Rich

Edited by rsivertsen

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It definately looks like the herbarium specimens. It is very likely the true N. thorelii. François, is this place in the Ti-tinh/Ong-Yem area? Mate, run there, tell these people not to dig up the plants, take seeds, cuttings and try to see how many colonies we can hope to find of this maybe-nearly-extinct species!!! If you need another job, I'll find you a place as gardener in London!! :)!!!

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I fully agree that digging up wild plants is a no-no.

But probably not many people who just obtained their first CP for example asked whether it was imported in accordance with the CITES regulations, whether it was collected from the wild or if it came with a phytosanitary certificate, because nobody has said they should.

I know I didn't... :Laie_97:

As already mentioned above, should new growers not to be given the chance to learn that there is more to being a plant enthusiast than just to grow them?

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Yes ,as already has been said,we know you shouldn't take plants from the wild BUT! I for one didn't always know,in some countries it may even be encouraged.

If Francois actually goes over there (have a great time) it'd be a great opportunity to do some CP education for our young freinds in Vietnam.

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I can also add another example:

beware of nurseries that don't have a clear and clean fame in the Nepenthes community. The fact that they give CITES doesn't mean much. The CITES makes them and you clean in front of the law. But what happens before? It happens that poor farmers dig up plants from the roots to make some money, they go to Nepenthes nurseries to sell the plants they collected, and the nursery owner has two possibilities: say yes, take the plants and sell them; say no, and the farmer will go to another nursery or the plants will die. Usually the nursery will say yes. Then it's just a matter of filling some papers and here you have your CITES (info given to me by the nurseries themselves! ...from their point of view: "what can I do? I feed a poor man, get some plants and Nepenthes will never disappear, the forest is biiiig"). AND western growers are always there, tens of them, ready to buy anything.

Popular western nurseries always made clear their TC/seeds/cuttings facilities and original sources. But just give a look at many other nurseries from SE asia: they have a list, they will send you plants with CITES, stop. That's all you know. Is that enough? I know, for most of you it is, as buyers (often little kids of 13-15 y.o., who ignore the conservation problem) keep increasing. In fact, this only wants to be a little reminder to experienced growers... be careful! Plants sold by SE Asian nurseries but coming originally from BE, EP etc are of course fine, that's the right way to follow... but when it comes to local species, you never know...

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I can also add another example:

beware of nurseries that don't have a clear and clean fame in the Nepenthes community. The fact that they give CITES doesn't mean much. The CITES makes them and you clean in front of the law. But what happens before? It happens that poor farmers dig up plants from the roots to make some money, they go to Nepenthes nurseries to sell the plants they collected, and the nursery owner has two possibilities: say yes, take the plants and sell them; say no, and the farmer will go to another nursery or the plants will die. Usually the nursery will say yes. Then it's just a matter of filling some papers and here you have your CITES (info given to me by the nurseries themselves! ...from their point of view: "what can I do? I feed a poor man, get some plants and Nepenthes will never disappear, the forest is biiiig"). AND western growers are always there, tens of them, ready to buy anything.

Popular western nurseries always made clear their TC/seeds/cuttings facilities and original sources. But just give a look at many other nurseries from SE asia: they have a list, they will send you plants with CITES, stop. That's all you know. Is that enough? I know, for most of you it is, as buyers (often little kids of 13-15 y.o., who ignore the conservation problem) keep increasing. In fact, this only wants to be a little reminder to experienced growers... be careful! Plants sold by SE Asian nurseries but coming originally from BE, EP etc are of course fine, that's the right way to follow... but when it comes to local species, you never know...

This is why it's important for people who have the experience and the knowledge to help educate others who don't know what they do.

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DEFRA do checks on nurseries selling plants with CITES. It is not enough to simply have the certificate, DEFRA spot check and ask for proof that the plants have been artificially propagated and the parent plants where legally collected. If proof cannot be provided you wont be given an Import Certificate. I assume this is also the practice in other EU countries but it may not be. It is only a spot check so there will always be exceptions.

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It definately looks like the herbarium specimens. It is very likely the true N. thorelii. François, is this place in the Ti-tinh/Ong-Yem area? Mate, run there, tell these people not to dig up the plants, take seeds, cuttings and try to see how many colonies we can hope to find of this maybe-nearly-extinct species!!! If you need another job, I'll find you a place as gardener in London!! :)!!!

About 100 km from the original area.

I will go Cello. This is even more important than the new species from Pursat.

François.

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About 100 km from the original area.

I will go Cello. This is even more important than the new species from Pursat.

François.

Great to hear that François! Just explain to the wife and family that you have a very important appointment with fate and destiny and that your financial and other monetary issues will have to take a back seat for now. If you don't go, you may regret it for the rest of your life and one day wake up to find that you've become a grumpy old grouch! It would be good to have a look-see around the original places where the herbarium specimens were recorded as well since it's so close by; also would be great if you found some N. kampotiana stands if it's feasible. Looking forward to your report on this when you get back! ;) - Rich

Edited by rsivertsen

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When reading Stewarts book, I noted that the seed capsules could be up to 5 cm, which seems incredible. From seeing the herbarium photos I realised that they can vary much in size, but still, that is huge.

Regards,

Christer

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I fully agree that digging up wild plants is a no-no.

Collect spares or seeds, please :sun_bespectacled:

We will not encourage digging rare wild plants :negative:

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OK, That's a deal.

I will go in less than three months and will meet the growers. I will explain them how to preserve those rare plants.

The aim of my trip will be to collect herbarium samples, make a global survey of the population, then write a scientific paper and a... field report for the forum!

If is indeed the original true N. thorelii (a thing I am convinced), it will be a great new because this species had not been seen nor reported since its description... in 1909!

Wish me good luck ;-)

François.

Edited by Sockhom

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