wireless broadband setup

[gardenofeden]

I'm changing from a powewrline ethernet bridge with cabled router to a wireless router. Mostly happy with the setup but the terminology is confusing me. My old BT router has a RJ11 to RJ11 cable supplying the broadband feed from the splitter in the primary socket to the DSL (RJ11) socket in the router. The new router input socket is labelled WAN and is a RJ45 socket, and instructions say "connect WAN port to modems LAN port". Now I don't have a modem, so does this relate to cable or similar where a modem splits the signal? Is it just as simple as buying a RJ11 to RJ45 male to male lead to connect the filter to the WAN socket on my wireless router.

Happy with the rest of the process, just this WAN RJ45 business...

thanks

[Amori]

The modem LAN it's referring to should be on your computer. Most, if not all computers from the last decade are fitted with internal modems, and if your's is, you should have an ethernet (aka RJ45, a thicker cable) port like this: http://www.infernotech.com/ref_book/softwa...hernet-port.jpe . The cable should have been provided with the wireless router. You'll need to connect your computer directly to the router for the initial setup stage, and once that's done, you're set to go wireless. The RJ11 only connects the router to the splitter as before. Then again, I'm only familiar with some makes of routers, and have no experience with BT ones so far.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Amori

[jimfoxy]

You need an ADSL modem + router I'm afraid. They are two different functions and can be put into one unit or can be supplied separately.

The RJ11 connector feeds the (A)DSL signal to the modem. The modem 'converts' this into ethernet which is connected to a computer (or another router or switch, for example) via RJ45 connectors.

You can probably use your old BT router/modem as the modem for your new wireless router (depending on its capability, it may limit your speed - certainly would probably be fine in my house where the limit is in the external BT line - max I can get is about 0.8Mbit/sec). Connect together with RJ45 connector. You will probably need to turn off DHCP server capability in one of the routers as you cannot have more than one DHCP server on a LAN. Also, their IP addresses should share the same first three numbers in the IP address but the last number should be different. e.g. 192.168.1.1 and 192.168.1.2. In that way you can control both units from any PC on your LAN.

Went through quite a battle like this myself recently. I have a new powerful BT modem/wireless router acting as modem and wireless router wired to a second older BT modem/wireless router acting as a router purely to extend the wireless signal to a wireless extender two rooms away (the new BT units can't be extended like this). The extender can then reach a computer I have elsewhere. All this because of the stupid positioning of the BT phone socket and the fact I don't want to run wires along the walls.

Hope that helps and I have understood what you are doing.

Edited November 11, 2009 by jimfoxy

[gardenofeden]

The modem LAN it's referring to should be on your computer.

no, it is referring to the broadband input into the router, not to the computer

[gardenofeden]

Jim, yes, I understand, thanks

a bit of sorting required...

[Amori]

Sorry, I didn't quite realise that your setup involved a separate router and modem. I automatically assumed you were chucking out the old modem and replacing it with an all-in-one system (as Jim mentioned). Please bare with me and my vertigo. A modem+router system is far easier to configure, too.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Amori

[gardenofeden]

well I did not deliberately go for a separate modem and router, I bought a router assuming it had a built in modem, the problem is I did not realise that this was what I had done.....hence the confusion

[gardenofeden]

considering the difficuties involved in my unwitting path, would it be better to flog the unused wireless router (without modem) and buy an all-in-one? If so, can anyone recommend a good wireless router? Jim, is the new BT wireless router OK? Could probably get one with a contract renewal but I am loathe to get too cosy with BT due to after sales call-centre nightmare....

Edited November 12, 2009 by gardenofeden

[mobile]

Netgear ADSL wireless modem routers are good. I've had a Netgear DG834G for years and have had no problems with it. There is also a 108Mbps version but I have no experience with this. However, if you can get a free ADSL wireless modem router from your ISP then it might be a better solution as it would save you money and they would provide support for it.

Edited November 12, 2009 by mobile

[jimfoxy]

As mobile says, getting a freebie is usually best!

It should not be too tricky to setup what you have if you have the manuals for both modem and router. (If the below is not clear then there are lots of web forums and sites telling you how to do this.)

1) First thing to do is ensure that you have the modem setup correctly so put the router to one side. Connect a PC to the modem (RJ45) and use a web browser to get to the setup 'website' (assuming it has one) - you will need the default IP address given in the manual to put in as the URL in the web browser. Plug in the (A)DSL line (RJ11) and ensure you put all the connection details in correctly (supplied by your ISP). Establish that you can connect to the internet (e.g. do a google search). Write down the full IP address of this modem somewhere safe.

2) Now take the router and don't plug the modem into it but do plug your PC to it (RJ45). Change the IP address so that first three numbers are the same as the modem but the last number is different. Write down the full IP address somewhere you won't lose it. You will probably lose the connection when you change the IP address because it will no longer be valid, of course, so you need to type the new IP address in as the URL if you want to check/change the setup again.

3) Connect the modem to the router and see if you can get access to the internet and also try the IP address of the modem (as the URL) while you are connected to the router.

4) Then see if you can connect wirelessly.

You must have DHCP enabled on only one of the units. I think you can have it on either but not sure. I would be inclined to try it on the router first. (What the DHCP server does is dish out IP addresses to those machines that are asking for one i.e. anything that doesn't have one specifically set like, usually, your PC. If there are two DHCP servers then they will not get along very well.) If you have no DHCP server on a LAN then every machine must have an IP address that is set manually (see below) and is unique from any other machine on the LAN.

If at any point you need to connect to a router/modem where you have disabled DHCP and it is not connected to anything acting as the DHCP then you need to manually set your PC IP address in Windows (the first three numbers in the IP address must be the same as the thing you are connecting to). To do that on an XP machine, Control Panel -> Network Connections -> (find the LAN connection you are using and right click on it) -> Properties -> (left click on TCP/IP) -> (left click Properties button) -> (select 'Use the following IP address') -> enter 192.168.x.y (where x is the same as on the thing you are trying to connect to, and y is a different number from it). Set subnet mask as 255.255.255.0. After you have it sorted, revert to 'Obtain an IP address automatically'. (Google 'static IP address' for more info.)

Ah, it is getting rather fiddly, isn't it. Yes, maybe flog it and get a modem/router in one. It should save on electricity if nothing else!

If you need the range to be as far as possible then you will need a 802.11n (sometimes called wireless-n). If not, then you can go for cheaper 802.11g,b options. You can often pick them up cheap on ebay, gumtree etc as many ISPs give them out free so people often end up with excess. Looks like you can get the BT Home Hub 2.0 for £20 (incl P&P) on ebay.

I heard somewhere that BT were getting rid of a number of foreign call centres (I didn't hear that they would be replaced! ). BT is my preferred option after a previous ADSL nightmare with Tiscali. Tiscali blamed BT and BT blamed Tiscali. Now that BT is both my line provider and ISP, they cannot push the blame onto anyone else so that when I get a problem they have to sort it out. Yes, I would recommend their newest Home Hub modem/router. It is powerful and has given me no trouble. BT give it out free (or did for me) with most broadband contracts. It is just a shame it does not have the WDS capability of previous versions. Once I had to disconnect and reconnect the ADSL connection when I had not used it for a long time and it was very slow (I suspect your usage is monitored somewhere upstream and you are chucked to bottom priority if you are not using the connection much).

By the way, my advice is not to install any software that comes with the unit unless absolutely necessary. Do not go near the BT CD that is sent with the Home Hub unless you want a load of crap clogging up your PC, or you are getting desperate in trying to get a connection. Mine worked out of the box, established an ADSL connection, plugged my ethernet connector in to my laptop and got internet access instantly. You don't actually need any of the fatware on the CD.

Remember to setup some security. Go for the option that will work on everything on your LAN (choices are WEP, WPA etc - WEP is weakest but works with everything). Write down the key that you set if you change from the default as you will need that for everything else that connects wirelessly.

Edited November 12, 2009 by jimfoxy

[Jonathan F.]

get rid of BT and go onto virgin media its all plug and play and much much faster and a good all in one.

[gardenofeden]

thanks Jim, yes prob a bit too complicated for me! I'm not that confident. I have managed to send back the router, will explore BT hub, do you know what speed it transmits at? I hear what you're saying about BT software, was sorting out my father-in-law's wireless the other day, first thing I did was disable BT software and connected via windows, worked first time!

fillthehole, not much choice in ISPs out here in the sticks, I only get 2 or 3 options via a telephone line, 0.25Mbps is a good day!

[mobile]

...go onto virgin media its all plug and play and much much faster and a good all in one.

Maybe... if they have laid cable but you'll find that they only do that in larger residential areas. Remote areas are poorly served by such cable companies. Most router modems are pretty much plug and play nowadays, often only requiring the user to input their username and password.

Edited November 12, 2009 by mobile

[LJ]

Hope you get it sorted Stephen - certainly seems less complicated if you can get an all in one - our wireless router/modem just broke and we had to get a tiscali engineer out to check what the problem was as couldnt connect to the internet, after finding it was the router they've replaced it for me with one they support and has a lifetime guarentee (1st time I've actually had a good experience with tiscali but quite impressed this time that theyve some out so quickly to help), ofcourse it is at cost to me but less than I'd pay for a new router in the shops and if it breaks again it will get fixed for free. It was really quick to set up too.

Maybe worth having a word with your ISP, they might be able to send someone out with a router/modem and set it all up for you.....on another note also heard good things about netgear too and this is the brand we were going to buy if we needed a new router (before we knew tiscali would be able to provide us with one).

I'm another one against BT I'm afraid, they were so unhelpful when we were trying to get them to test the phone line recently after tiscali asked us to phone them. My partners parents also had it installed but have since got rid of it due to various problems with them. I'd prob go with Virgin too if I got the chance but no service in my area either

Good luck,

Heather

[Jonathan F.]

Why not sky internet thats good too plus 20Mbps its like BT Total 20Mbps.

[LJ]

Not a bad option if you already have sky, partners parents were going to do this then decided to get rid of sky altogether. Now using talk talk - about £15 for internet and line rental per month I think so good value and had router with modem included, no trouble with that so far but then its only when you have problems and you need them to fix it you find out how good or bad they are!! Wouldnt have recommended tiscali after several bad experiences with them before but their customer service seems to have improved, or else I just got lucky this time :)

[Amori]

I'm on Talktalk here too (not my choice), and despite initially panicking after reading the shining reviews about them, I've not had a problem so far. I've also kept my original modem/router as their's is a bit.. umm.. you know? Still, good to have a backup in case anything happens to the old Belkin.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Amori

[jimfoxy]

All ISPs are great until you get a problem. Then it is usually only the expensive ones that make things easy for you.

I don't think there is any problem with the wireless speed of the BT Home Hub 2.0. Instead, you will invariably be limited by your phone line max bandwidth. You can roughly work that out based on your distance from your exchange. Various broad band websites allow you to work this out. More importantly than any speed advertised by your wireless router is its effective range at a decent speed; and that only comes from a trial. The latest Home Hub, because it uses 802.11n, is as good as any I have come across.

Another reason for going with BT as the ISP is that (I believe) not all exchanges have equipment capable of carrying other ISP traffic with good performance. I think this refers to local loop unbundling which I am not too clued up on, so this may be rubbish. I only went with BT so that they can't shove the blame onto another ISP if I get problems if the phone line is at fault (certainly a history of that around here).

Edit - Just in case anybody is in doubt, you don't need the modem/router that your ISP supplied you to use that ISP. Likewise, you can use any modem/router with any ISP. It is just that it might be easier to use the one that your ISP gave you for support reasons etc. Also, there may be some settings that you need to make that may not be obvious on your ISP's website without doing some serious searching.

Edited November 13, 2009 by jimfoxy

[Phantom]

One slight point you missed out involving the STATIC IP addresses, Jim.

You would have to make sure when you changed back to 'Obtain an IP address automatically', that you also make sure you also make sure that 'Obtain DNS server address automatically' is also selected.

Just a small point but you wouldn't get on the web without it.

My main point being just to show how one small wrong number in one box or unticking a box that should be ticked could mean the difference between a happy evening on cpukforum or spending it wondering why the bloody thing isn't working !!!!!!!

Actually the more I think about it.......

The modem and/or router should have a DHCP server (or two) between them, if it doesn't then setting up the compute would become slighty harder - having to enter extra information like 'default gateway' and manual setting of the DNS servers.

Then we can throw into the mix that the modem or router may default to a 'Class A' network - with an address of 10.0.0.1 (or similiar) and a subnet of 255.0.0.0, rather than your 'Class C' 192.168.1.1/255.255.255.0 address.

.....aren't you glad you sent the router back now ?!?!?!

[gardenofeden]

.....aren't you glad you sent the router back now ?!?!?!

YES!