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Guest slongrigg

ID for UK native Utric needed

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Guest slongrigg

Last weekend I found Utricularia sp. in flower in a pool in a sphagnum bog in central Scotland.

This has been identified as U. intermedia agg. (probably ochroleuca) by a botanist "because of the shape of the flower" and because (he says...) "the bladders are on leafless shoots and are colourless". This identification was made purely on the basis of 2 of my pictures - see below. He did not see the actual plant. As this species is almost never ever seen in flower, I would very much appreciate verification (or otherwise).

Sarah

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U. intermedia agg. (probably ochroleuca)

Hi Sarah,

neither nor :yes:

my first guess was U. minor - but then I remembered that post of Andy, where Andreas identified the plant as U. bremii. That would indeed be a very rare find you made!

So lets wait and see how Andreas will solve that riddle :smile:

Edited by Martin Hingst

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Guest slongrigg

Many thanks, Martin. That's a great help.

I'd love to have some more views on this though, please... from anyone that knows their Utricularias, but especially from Andreas!

Sarah

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Hello Sarah,

The flower belongs to either U. minor or U. bremii (the latter is more likely, but in order to confirm this for sure, I would need either a) a more detailed photograph of the flower taken from above or below, b) an indication of the size of the flower, or at least c) the time of the year the photograph was taken ;)). This flower for certain does not belong to any member of the U. intermedia aggregate (U. intermedia, U. stygia or U. ochroleuca), thus your botanist was wrong ;).

The 2nd photograph shows a mixture of two different species (the green stolons with smaller traps belong to the plant in flower, i.e. either U. minor or U. bremii; the pale subterranous stolons with larger traps belong to a member of the U. intermedia agg., which is most likely U. stygia. I assume this is an acidic peat bog habitat (judging from the sphagnum in the 1st photo), which means U. stygia is the species found there most commonly (however U. stygia is a shy flowerer)).

All the best,

Andreas

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Guest slongrigg

Andreas

Many thanks for your very helpful reply.

I am glad you agree about the flower, as I was already sure it couldn't be U. intermedia agg.

Regarding U. bremii, I had considered this possibility but it is not known for certain that it is in Scotland. It was thought to be found once only. Also the only pictures of U. bremii that I can find on the web have red lines on the lower lip. I believe that all the U. intermedia agg. species also have this, but U. minor doesn't. Is this always true, or can it vary whether flowers have the red lines or not? I could see no red lines on the flower I found.

I found this on 16th August. I have tried to go back and find more flowers, but just now we have so much rain that the water level has risen and the flowers are submerged. I will try again when there is less rain.

I do not have any pictures taken from above or below the flower. I could not get very near to it because the bog was very deep and I did not want to do too much damage. Someone else got closer (he had longer legs!) and he took some photos. He has sent me one and will send some more. I don't know if he has any taken from above.

Regarding the leaves, most of the stems in the picture were joined together so they must have been the same species, but it's possible that a small piece of stolon was from a different plant. I looked at the leaves on all the stolons and I could see no little spines. I have seen U. stygia before (I collected 2 small samples from other places for identification and they are growing very well in my garden) and I could always see these spines. I have only seen U. stygia in very shallow water and it looks quite different from anything I saw on 16th August. Of course it might look different in deeper water. Also, when I have seen U. stygia in other places, the traps are buried under mud. In the sample from 16th August the pale stolons with larger traps seemed to be lying on the surface and not buried.

My husband was able to dissect 2 of the traps and we took photos of the quadrifid hairs in the backs of the traps. I'm pretty sure he took at least one of the larger paler traps. In these 2 traps they were like \||/ (see pictures below). I understand that U. stygia has the hairs like X but in U. minor/bremii they are like \||/ (or /||\ if seen the other way up), and we have found this to be true before.

I will try to grow the little pieces I have brought home, but they probably won't grow much until next year. I will also try to go back and look at some more of the pale stolons.

I will also post more pictures when i have them.

With best wishes

Sarah

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Above: Picture of the same flower, taken by Roy Sexton

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Leaf with no spines

By comparison, I have a similar picture of a leaf from my U. stygia at

http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/uploads/gal...8_230_38089.jpg

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These are 2 pictures of the quadrifid hairs. We have looked at 4 bladders including some of the pale ones, and they all seem to be like \||/ or /||\ depending which way up they are, and never like X

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Guest slongrigg

Here is another picture I have just received of the same flower, taken by Roy Sexton.

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Sarah

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Hi Sarah,

those last two flower shots look like U. minor (not U. bremii) to me.

BTW - very nice microphotos :D

Regards

Martin

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Guest slongrigg

Thanks, Martin.

I forgot to post a picture of the stolons in their original location. See below.

Sarah

gallery_1118_230_3077.jpg

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Hello Sarah,

All of the newly added photographs (flowers and vegetative parts) show U. minor, not U. bremii. Indeed U. bremii is rare (extinct?) in Scottland, but re-discovery of course it not impossible.

I agree with you that all green leaf segments shown in photo 2 (first post) belong to U. minor. You don't even have to look for the lateral spinules on the leaf segment margins, it's just the overall small size that easily distinguished them from U. stygia at first sight.

What is still puzzling to me is the long pale subterranous stonlon with large traps that runs across the foreground in your photo no. 2. I have never observed such large traps on U. minor, but know them well from members of the U. intermedia aggregate. To me it looks like this single pale stolon is detached from a different plant (i.e. U. stygia).

However we should trust your observations more of course, I had not been to that site (yet ;)). If you noticed that there was just this type of plant growing as the only species in that bog (I trust you will well recognize U. stygia), and if you say that all plant parts shown in photo no. 2 were connected to a single specimen, I do believe you. Well then those are the biggest traps I have ever seen in U. minor (and a rare proof of pale subterranous stolons in that species). Congrats!

Well done, and thanks for showing your beautiful photographs and sharing your knowledge!

All the best,

Andreas

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Guest slongrigg

Andreas

Many thanks once again for your help. My knowledge is much less than yours, but I have learnt a lot from looking at this plant in detail.

There were a few stolons that were not joined to the rest in the sample, and one looked paler, so we took a bladder from each and looked at the quadrifid hairs. In each case they matched U. minor and were like the photos I already posted..

I hope that one day you will perhaps be able to visit the site. If I go back, I will keep looking to see if I can find any U. stygia. I know a place where it grows that is less than 10km away so there is always the possibility that it is there too. I'll also keep a lookout for U. bremii. Who knows? It might be in Scotland somewhere!

Sarah

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