fire ants in my newly moved sarracenia flava??

[ijason]

greetings.

so far this forum has been brilliant help, so i dutifully return with yet another question for the experts :)

i have just recently moved my potted sarracenia flava from one house to another. and no sooner do i find an appropriately sunny patch to set it up in, do i notice that there has been an immediate infestation with fire ants! my initial move was to flick out the ants i could see, and then surround the pot with a thickly spread ring of diatanacious earth to hopefully keep fresh ants from showing up.

apparently this hasn't worked. as there are now bunches of ants in the pot, and some crawling around on the pitchers themselves.

panic stricken, i ran to the forum and searched for ants. now it appears that these ants actually won't harm the plant, but will indeed fall helplessly into the pitchers if/when they venture too far up? my biggest concern was the ants chewing up the rhizome of the pitcher plants as they nest, but if that generally doesn't happen with fire ants, it sounds like it's just going to be free food for the plant?

lastly, if it turns out that the ants must go, is it safe to sprinkle diatanacious earth into the potting medium the plant is living in?

thanks!

[Stairs]

Diatomaceous earth is basic, and since it is likely to raise the pH of your soil mix, it's unlikely to do great things for any Sarracenia in the long run.

[Neil Cornish]

You could always submerge the pot under water for a few days. No harm to the plant and last time I checked fire ants aren't aquatic :0)

Regards Neil

[Vic2]

You could always submerge the pot under water for a few days. No harm to the plant and last time I checked fire ants aren't aquatic :0)

Regards Neil

Slack does this to rid VFTs of aphids.

I tried it with aphids on a D. regia with one addition, and it worked a treat :)

Like all insects, ants breathe through fine tubes running through their bodies called trachae; these draw in air through holes in their sides called spiracles. Because these holes are so small, water tension prevents water getting in and drowning the insect.

So I mixed a little biodegradeable wetting agent (essentially, a detergent like soap) into a bucketful of rain water; this destroys the surface tension, the trachae flood with water and hey presto! drowned insect

Details:

Three drops of PBI's (Baby) Bio Organic Pest Control spray - which is 2% natural fatty acids - into 10-15 litres of rain water in a tall bucket; I think a single pure soap flake, or one small drop of Ecover biodegradeable washing up liquid would do the trick, too. All you need to see is the surface tension breaking on the water surface.

Submerge your plant for 12 hours in a cool place. Don't let the plant to warm up, as it's essentially holding its breath for 12 hours; so you don't want its metabolic rate any higher than it has to be. Also, cool water holds more oxygen.

Take the pot out and let the compost drain out of water for another 8-12 hours, then put it back in its water tray as normal.

The insects were dead, the new growth showed no more signs of aphid damage and the plant showed no ill effects.

I found that keeping the bucket in sunlight encourages slimy algae to grow on the surface of the compost, but this dies back pretty quickly when the pot is back in air again.

To get rid of ants, I don't think it would be necessary to fill the Sarracenia pitchers with water, and it may rob the plant of any food when you drain the pitchers afterwards.

Please bear in mind that ants swim very well, and will certainly try to escape from the bucket, like rats from a sinking ship. If they're anywhere near you when they get out, they'll probably be in a flaming temper... ;)

Good luck,

V2 :)

[Vic2]

You could always submerge the pot under water for a few days. No harm to the plant and last time I checked fire ants aren't aquatic :0)

Regards Neil

Slack does this to rid VFTs of aphids.

I tried it with aphids on a D. regia with one addition, and it worked a treat :)

Like all insects, ants breathe through fine tubes running through their bodies called trachae; these draw in air through holes in their sides called spiracles. Because these holes are so small, water tension prevents water getting in and drowning the insect.

So I mixed a little biodegradeable wetting agent (essentially, a detergent like soap) into a bucketful of rain water; this destroys the surface tension, the trachae flood with water and hey presto! drowned insect

Details:

Three drops of PBI's (Baby) Bio Organic Pest Control spray - which is 2% natural fatty acids - into 10-15 litres of rain water in a tall bucket; I think a single pure soap flake, or one small drop of Ecover biodegradeable washing up liquid would do the trick, too. All you need to see is the surface tension breaking on the water surface.

Submerge your plant for 12 hours in a cool place. Don't let the plant to warm up, as it's essentially holding its breath for 12 hours; so you don't want its metabolic rate any higher than it has to be. Also, cool water holds more oxygen.

Take the pot out and let the compost drain out of water for another 8-12 hours, then put it back in its water tray as normal.

The insects were dead, the new growth showed no more signs of aphid damage and the plant showed no ill effects.

I found that keeping the bucket in sunlight encourages slimy algae to grow on the surface of the compost, but this dies back pretty quickly when the pot is back in air again.

To get rid of ants, I don't think it would be necessary to fill the Sarracenia pitchers with water, and it may rob the plant of any food when you drain the pitchers afterwards.

Please bear in mind that ants swim very well, and will certainly try to escape from the bucket, like rats from a sinking ship. If they're anywhere near you when they get out, they'll probably be in a flaming temper... ;)

Good luck,

V2 :)

[linton]

You could always try putting a flea collar around your pot - don't let it touch the soil though.

[Alexis]

Leave it. Sarracenia love eating ants. S. minor makes it a speciality - most of its prey is ant.

[Javier Fernandez Diaz]

Yes alexis! My sarraceniaes are full of ants!

[ijason]

thanks for all the great replies :)

i've been keeping a careful eye on the plant, and haven't seen any indication that the ants are nibbling anywhere, so i think i'll do as Alexis suggests and just leave things be. my greater concern that was they damage the rhizome when they burrow or nest, but i figure since the pot is essentially wet all the time, i doubt they're actually going to choose to nest there... all the ants i ever see tend to nest in the dry bits of my yard. so if they're just scrounging for food, then no harm done!

i've heard the soap/water trick before. it works on more than just ants, it will totally knock wasps out of their nest. in fact, a bucket half full with water and a good squirt of dish-washing liquid is my method of choice for dispatching paper wasps whenever they nest near my house. just be sure to slosh the water around a bit first to disperse the soap. the wasps are nearly dead before they hit the ground!

[Vic2]

thanks for all the great replies :)

i've heard the soap/water trick before. it works on more than just ants, it will totally knock wasps out of their nest. in fact, a bucket half full with water and a good squirt of dish-washing liquid is my method of choice for dispatching paper wasps whenever they nest near my house. just be sure to slosh the water around a bit first to disperse the soap. the wasps are nearly dead before they hit the ground!

I also don't want wasps near the house; but I must admit I feel sorry for the wasps here:

I used to study the neurophysiology of the Hymenoptera (ants, bees and wasps), and the wasps were by far the smartest. Unlike ants, the wasp workers would sometimes learn a response in just one try. For an intelligent 'cold-blooded' creature with a low metabolic rate, suffocation must be a slow and nasty way to go.

When some wasps nested over my electricity meter, I felt I had no choice and I used a good dose of proprietary anti-flea house spray from the vet's which contained permethrin (a nerve toxin): Their nervous systems are knocked out in seconds. It's still killing, but a quick death for them makes me feel better, anyway.

V2

Edited August 14, 2009 by Vic2