manders Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Read this somewhere ages ago and it seems t be true, tired two plants in peat/perlite and 100% perlite and the one in perlite grew pitchers, the one in peat mix didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifurita Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Personally, I think its the moisture and possibly acidity that the plant doesn't like. Over here in the tropics where humidity is high like crazy, any mix which contains peat typically results in a dead or extremely unhealthy N. northiana. After some experimentation, I've found that I get best results with plant health and pitcher production if the plants is in a medium which barely retains water or not at all and placed under full sun. I've tried 100% perlite but compared to a friend's plant grown in 100% burnt earth, which dries out quickly and completely, his N. northiana is doing a lot better. My plant in 100% perlite produces pitchers, but they sometimes terminate halfway, especially during the rainy season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsivertsen Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I've had problems with this one myself, especially when using peat mixes. I've found that a lot of Nepenthes really do NOT grow well in peat mixes in the long term as it tends to get too acidic and stays too wet to long, also seems to invite and encourage a lot of pot pests that eventually nibble and feed on their root system. Perhaps coconut husk chips and other orchid bark mixes might work better. I also have had some disappointing results with perlite mixes over 30% or so, one pot I used 50% perlite and 50% sphagnum which seemed to last about a year with N. northiana, but even that eventually gave up the ghost for me. Too bad, I really love this species, just wish I could grow it. - Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted August 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I've had problems with this one myself, especially when using peat mixes. I've found that a lot of Nepenthes really do NOT grow well in peat mixes in the long term as it tends to get too acidic and stays too wet to long, also seems to invite and encourage a lot of pot pests that eventually nibble and feed on their root system. Perhaps coconut husk chips and other orchid bark mixes might work better. I also have had some disappointing results with perlite mixes over 30% or so, one pot I used 50% perlite and 50% sphagnum which seemed to last about a year with N. northiana, but even that eventually gave up the ghost for me. Too bad, I really love this species, just wish I could grow it. - Rich My experience seems to be a little different in that I find most of my nepenthes grow well in peat/perlite mixes, I rarely repot anything unless they just outgrow the pot, and I put them in large pots right from the start, so most have been in the same pot/compost for several years. Northiana is one of the exceptions however. Next step will be report the one in peat with perlite/oyster shell and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amar Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Months ago I bought myself a N. macfarlanei. It was a tiny plant. And now it is even tinier! It's planted in peat/perlite.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted August 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Months ago I bought myself a N. macfarlanei. It was a tiny plant. And now it is even tinier! It's planted in peat/perlite.. This is the problem with anecdotal evidence... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifurita Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I've got good and bad things to say about peat and perlite mixes. Typically, most of the lowlanders I grow seem to love it and thrive in it, with some exceptions like N. northiana, N. campanulata, etc. This in spite of the high natural humidity in my area and the peat staying wet. At the same time, I've found that I have much better results planting the intermediates and highlanders in very well draining, non-peat mixes, in spite of the fact that due to the air-con, humidity is low and the mixes dry out quickly. Of course, some Neps don't seem to care what the media is and some don't even care about having media at all(I kid you not, I have an N. ampullaria with a vine that's a good two meters long and a number of basals on the lower section, growing in a basin of tap water and nothing else). There's probably no hard and fast rule here except to find out about the individual nep's natural habitat and see what conditions it likes. I can't imagine a cliff dweller like northiana loving peat or any other overly soggy mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted August 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I've got good and bad things to say about peat and perlite mixes. Typically, most of the lowlanders I grow seem to love it and thrive in it, with some exceptions like N. northiana, N. campanulata, etc. This in spite of the high natural humidity in my area and the peat staying wet. At the same time, I've found that I have much better results planting the intermediates and highlanders in very well draining, non-peat mixes, in spite of the fact that due to the air-con, humidity is low and the mixes dry out quickly. Of course, some Neps don't seem to care what the media is and some don't even care about having media at all(I kid you not, I have an N. ampullaria with a vine that's a good two meters long and a number of basals on the lower section, growing in a basin of tap water and nothing else).There's probably no hard and fast rule here except to find out about the individual nep's natural habitat and see what conditions it likes. I can't imagine a cliff dweller like northiana loving peat or any other overly soggy mix. The intersting thing about my two northianas is that they are both the same size and both grow at the same speed, but the one with some peat doesnt pitcher at all. Probably not surprising as it (and campanulata) are adapted to alkaline cliff faces. Couldnt agree more about lowlanders and peat, they love it. I do however have a number of highlanders in peat/perlite and they like it well enough, they are however in big pots and i dont water very often, so the compost is frequently quite dry for long periods. In these cases though the peat itself is not a pitcher inhibitor like it seems to be on Northiana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob-Rah Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I have found northiana does quite well in a seramis/bark mixture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifurita Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 The intersting thing about my two northianas is that they are both the same size and both grow at the same speed, but the one with some peat doesnt pitcher at all. Probably not surprising as it (and campanulata) are adapted to alkaline cliff faces.Couldnt agree more about lowlanders and peat, they love it. I do however have a number of highlanders in peat/perlite and they like it well enough, they are however in big pots and i dont water very often, so the compost is frequently quite dry for long periods. In these cases though the peat itself is not a pitcher inhibitor like it seems to be on Northiana. Now that is interesting, perhaps it has to do with the ability of your compost to be quite dry for long periods. On my side the peat probably doesn't dry out quickly enough for northiana. I have two aristolochioides in similar conditions growing as you described: same size, same growth speed, but the one with some peat doesn't pitcher at all. Hmm...in the case of northiana, I wonder if there's a way to test if its peat or the acidity caused by peat that's causing this effect...is there some other acidic medium that doesn't retain too much water? I'm thinking sphagnum may be too water retaining... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly guy Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Well, I keep mine N. northiana in 100$ dead sphagnum moss. What is more, the pot is standing directly in the water level 0,5 -3 cm. It's a small plant - about 10 cm in diameter but every leaf produce a pitcher (I've got the plant for a half year now). Conditions: 3 x 24W T5, 60% humidity day, 80% humidity at night. Temps: 25-35 C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted August 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) Now that is interesting, perhaps it has to do with the ability of your compost to be quite dry for long periods. On my side the peat probably doesn't dry out quickly enough for northiana. I have two aristolochioides in similar conditions growing as you described: same size, same growth speed, but the one with some peat doesn't pitcher at all. Hmm...in the case of northiana, I wonder if there's a way to test if its peat or the acidity caused by peat that's causing this effect...is there some other acidic medium that doesn't retain too much water? I'm thinking sphagnum may be too water retaining... Before I managed to kill my aristolchoides by transplanting it, i had it growing in peat/perlite and spaghnum at different times, it pitchered in both media, but i thinks that's what makes Neps interesting, for everyone who is convinced they need a particular set of conditions somebody else grows them very well in different way. What i find with mine is that some years a particular plant will do very well, then not do well the next year, only to do better the year after, in the same conditions. My suspicion is that often that gets attributed wrongly to one particular compost or another, when its just a natural lull or burst of growth in the plants life cycle. On the other hand some species do seem more picky. Well, I keep mine N. northiana in 100$ dead sphagnum moss. What is more, the pot is standing directly in the water level 0,5 -3 cm. It's a small plant - about 10 cm in diameter but every leaf produce a pitcher (I've got the plant for a half year now). Conditions: 3 x 24W T5, 60% humidity day, 80% humidity at night. Temps: 25-35 C. I would be careful though with the wet compost, most neps will survive for long periods when all the roots have rotted off... Edited August 6, 2009 by manders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 I now grow northiana and campanulata in an inert mix. Just perlite, vermiculite, pumice and seramis and hort. gravel. They grow really well for me in this mix. I've tried peat mixes as well as LFS and a bark mix. I've found also that the more heat you give a northiana, the happier it is- within reason of course. This mix dries out almost immediately so I water every 2 days. The pitchers on my plants are about 4-5", so we'll have to see how they respond long term when the plants are bigger. Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manders Posted August 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 I now grow northiana and campanulata in an inert mix. Just perlite, vermiculite, pumice and seramis and hort. gravel. They grow really well for me in this mix. I've tried peat mixes as well as LFS and a bark mix. I've found also that the more heat you give a northiana, the happier it is- within reason of course. This mix dries out almost immediately so I water every 2 days. The pitchers on my plants are about 4-5", so we'll have to see how they respond long term when the plants are bigger.Derek Hi Derek, I think that makes a lot of sense and having read your post I think ill try something similar on one of mine, the vermiculite probably raises the Ph quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Evans Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I think this thread is highlighting how some species have differing pH preferences. Generally, Sphagnum moss is much closer to neutral pH than is peat moss soils. I think we have two large groups of Nepenthes; one which like somewhat acidic soils and one which likes pH near neutral. The there some outlaying groups which like limestone and ultramafic soils = --> the pH of which can overlap with that of Sphagnum moss. The limestone species clearly show a preference for neutral soils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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