purple_monkfish Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Well, i'm nearly at that point where I replant my poor long suffering sar, but something bothers me about it... Ever since I got it over 3 years ago, i've never seen it go into dormancy. This winter our heating even broke so we had a few weeks of NO HEATING AT ALL in December... still nothing. Yet, oddly, it threw up two flowers this year... so it can't be too unhappy. Is it doing it harm not going into dormancy or is it actually going dormant and i'm just not noticing? What's supposed to actually happen? It slows it's growth but it still throws up one or two pitches even in the depths of winter... so i'm confused. Any suggestions? I'd rather not stick it in the fridge come Autumn/winter as I fear it's actually gotten too tall to fit (seriously, it's HUGE now.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bauer Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 (edited) Has your Sarracenia known Culture In vitro? Edited June 21, 2009 by Bauer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple_monkfish Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Pardon? I know very little about it's life before I got it. It came from a supermarket so it's likely it didn't have the best of starts to life. Now I don't know how they grow sars for supermarkets, or what they pot the poor things in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Whereabouts do you keep the plant, i.e. in the house, greenhouse, coldframe etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bauer Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 If your Sarracenia is from a supermarket, it has been cultivated first in CIV... The good point is that the plant grows very fast and makes a lot of growing point on the rhizome but because of the growth hormones it doesn't sleep in the winter for the moment... Wild plants haven't this problem for example, you can wait many years before having a plant which will react as the normal one... Just put it in the best conditions of growing and let it grow until having an awesome clone :) Well, I'm french, I hope you will understand all what I said :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple_monkfish Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Whereabouts do you keep the plant, i.e. in the house, greenhouse, coldframe etc? It lives indoors actually, always has. Our garden is well... tiny, over crowded and full of super fertile soil. Great for growing herbs, not so good for cps. It lives in the bathroom where it's slightly more humid and gets decent amounts of sun (which turns the pitchers a beautiful purple/red colour if nothing else) I did consider that it was the warmth stopping it from realising dark meant winter, but even when we had no heating at all for several weeks it didn't seem to react. The year before it was left for a month with no heating, no lighting and just a tub of water to last it... we got back, no change. I honestly expected it to at least be a bit well.. unhappy but no, it continued to grow and throw up flowers and generally behave like an oddly content little thing. Limiting it's water does nothing, keeping it in the dark doesn't do much except turn it's pitchers green and i've never seen a winter leaf, it's always pitchers... so yeah... Is it just one of those ones that doesn't DO dormancy or do you think it's not being given enough cold? Thing that gets me is everything I read says they'll die if they don't go dormant, so why hasn't it died yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple_monkfish Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 If your Sarracenia is from a supermarket, it has been cultivated first in CIV... The good point is that the plant grows very fast and makes a lot of growing point on the rhizome but because of the growth hormones it doesn't sleep in the winter for the moment... Wild plants haven't this problem for example, you can wait many years before having a plant which will react as the normal one... Just put it in the best conditions of growing and let it grow until having an awesome clone :)Well, I'm french, I hope you will understand all what I said :) Ahh interesting. So you think it'll start behaving normally in a few years time? I admit, i was surprised when it threw up a flower last year, as far as I was aware it was only a few years old and what I read suggested i'd need to wait a couple more to see anything as far as flowers were concerned. I'm going to repot it as soon as my potting medium arrives. It's a pearlite/peat mix I believe from an actual cp nursery so it should be ok I think. At the moment it's gotten so large it's actually distorting the plastic pot it's in! hahaha. Poor thing. So it's going to be rehomed into a much much larger pot which hopefully will encourage it to grow grow grow (not that it needs encouragement) I do worry that keeping it in a small pot might actually kill it or something, but I also have concerns repotting it might shock it. I think i'll try to gentle approach of cutting it's original pot away (I don't think it'll come out with a few taps, it's pretty wedged now) and not brushing the preexisting medium away. It's been happy enough with it's original potting mix so i'm assuming it's actually peat or something instead of generic root burning compost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Dormancy is a gradual thing so not having heating for several weeks isn't going to make it go dormant. They are often kept in unheated greenhouses where winter temperatures get far lower than they ever would in a house. It is said that Sarracenia get weakened by not going into dormancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple_monkfish Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Dormancy is a gradual thing so not having heating for several weeks isn't going to make it go dormant. They are often kept in unheated greenhouses where winter temperatures get far lower than they ever would in a house. It is said that Sarracenia get weakened by not going into dormancy. I have considered putting it into the kitchen over the winter months. It's dark as anything in there and gets much colder than the rest of the house thanks to one tiny radiator that barely works and a slate roof that all the heat is lost through. I think the normal temp in there is about 10C at MOST ever. Do you think that might help or would having such limited sunlight hurt it? (though, there's no light in a fridge so...) If we make sure the kitchen (it's an extention and quite seperate to the rest of the house) stays cold, would that be cold enough to trigger dormancy? How cold does it actually have to get for the plant to kick into gear? and for how long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple_monkfish Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 I have considered putting it into the kitchen over the winter months. It's dark as anything in there and gets much colder than the rest of the house thanks to one tiny radiator that barely works and a slate roof that all the heat is lost through. I think the normal temp in there is about 10C at MOST ever. Do you think that might help or would having such limited sunlight hurt it? (though, there's no light in a fridge so...) If we make sure the kitchen (it's an extention and quite seperate to the rest of the house) stays cold, would that be cold enough to trigger dormancy? How cold does it actually have to get for the plant to kick into gear? and for how long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 As above being cooler for a few week out of the year will not trigger dormancy! It happens gradually and lasts several months - roughly Nov to end Feb. Missing dormancy for a few years wont kill your plant but as said above it is meant to weaken it. Temps should ideally be under 10 degrees for winter. Think of the temps they recieve in their natural habitat - the temps outside in the UK are ideal, though best in a sheltered spot/greenhouse etc - these temps are cooler than you would get in a house. Indoors is usually too warm even if there isnt any heating - if its regularly under 10 degrees in winter then it might be ok though I think you would need to keep measuring the temps to see what it is in the day/night. Some sort of natural light is good too - if you cant put it outside then is there a window you can put it next to in the kitchen? The decreasing light levels (amount of sunlight hours per day) along with cold temps will trigger dormancy, then in spring increasing light level and warmer temps will trigger it to start growing again. If its totally dark in the kitchen then your plant might miss the triggers of decreasing and increasing light levels. Hope that helps a bit, Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantrid Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 I have considered putting it into the kitchen over the winter months. It's dark as anything in there and gets much colder than the rest of the house thanks to one tiny radiator that barely works and a slate roof that all the heat is lost through. I think the normal temp in there is about 10C at MOST ever. Do you think that might help or would having such limited sunlight hurt it? (though, there's no light in a fridge so...) If we make sure the kitchen (it's an extention and quite seperate to the rest of the house) stays cold, would that be cold enough to trigger dormancy? How cold does it actually have to get for the plant to kick into gear? and for how long? I think you are missing the point. Your house is not cold enough in the winter. It may be ten degrees for short periods of time but it will then rise in the day, when you put the heating on etc. Most people in the UK put them outside for the winter where they are exposed to temps way below 10 degrees. Some people have said their pots freeze solid with no ill effects. I personally dont allow my CPs to have prolonged exposure to frost. A mild frost I allow but when there is extended sub zero temps I put a small paraffin heater in the cold frames I keep them in, not to warm it, rather to stop the temp dropping too low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple_monkfish Posted June 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Problem is, there's nowhere in our garden that's at all sheltered. Last winter we almost lost our very robust herb garden thanks to the frost which gave everything quite a beating. Several inches of snow do not happy plants make. They get crushed. As a result, because we have nowhere sheltered from such harshess, i'm reluctant to throw the poor plant outside. If the snow doesn't get it, no doubt something else will (like the gales) Let me think.... if we turn the heating off in the kitchen entirely and put it next to the unglazed window that might work... i'll stick a room thermometer next to it and look at the averages. It's worth a shot at least right? I'm assuming there's sufficient light in there given our last kitchen plant didn't die (well, not till the neighbour forgot to water it.. poor thing) so light shouldn't be an issue. Bear in mind, we are talking about a very very old house complete with stone walls (that absorb the cold, it takes weeks to get the heat back into them) and drafts everywhere with absolutely no insulation at all (Apparently the lopsided walls mean they can't install it... or something. I dunno). Unless anyone has any suggestions for a way to protect it if I put it outside... As I said, tiny garden with no shelter at all. Short of constructing some sort of cover, well... I don't know what I could do. If we had a patio that'd be fine but we don't and I honestly believe it'll snow again this year, if it's as bad as last year well... i'm not so worried about the cold, but more the plant getting wind damaged or crushed. How can I avoid that? In the meantime, I suppose all I can do is find a relatively cold indoor spot, monitor it and hope it gets cold enough. Least till we move to somewhere with a bigger more sheltered garden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple_monkfish Posted June 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Another thing that occurs to me... given it's not used to being in serious cold... would aclimatising it be a good idea? As in, give it one year in a cooler but not seriously harsh frosty situation before throwing it outside to brave the elements? I am concerned that after being an indoor plant for so many years, it'll come as quite a shock to suddenly endure frost and snow and ice and wind and be battered by heavy rain. So should I try to make it a gradual process? Give it a few seasons in a sheltered position, see how it does, then move it to the proper outdoors? I admit, i'm a little protective of my poor little plant (well I say little.. ahem) and i'd rather not accidently kill it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottychaos Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Your plant would do fine outdoors in the winter..even with no "shelter".. it will actually do FAR better outdoors in the long run than it will indoors.. indoors it will likely eventually die..outdoors it will likely thrive for decades.. outdoors in the winter in the UK is very mild, compared to many parts of the world, and its actually very comparable to the native climate of most Sarracenia. a few frosts, or even some occasional snow, is not a problem.. most people in the UK overwinter their sarracenia outdoors with no problems at all.. (I am right about that? am I not? I dont actually live in the UK, so im just going by what I have read here on CPUK.) Most of the UK is Zone 8 and 9..same as the south-east USA.. you are lucky! I would love to have your mild winters for my CP's.. IMO, your plant would be MUCH better off outdoors 24/7/365.. it might *seem* like its better off indoors, but you are probably "killing it with kindness".. indoors is actually far worse.. Scot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple_monkfish Posted June 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 I'd LOVE to be able to put it outside, it'd save a lot of hassle in terms of watering, but we haven't really the space... not unless I put it in a pot against the house, but even then. I get the feeling something like a balcony or patio would be the best place for it. If I put it outside well, it's big for a houseplant, tiny for an outdoors one... Unless I could put it onto something that would raise it off the ground (or people WILL stand on it, I just KNOW it.. or the local cats will knock it over gah. Or someone will knick it, they stole my sodding jack o lantern a few years back so I wouldn't put it past the local kids to steal a pitcher plant grrr) It's definintely something to do when we move to a bigger place. In the meantime however, the poor thing will just have to endure being an indoor plant. Anyway, for now i'm waiting on a new pot for it (It's distorting it's current pot and the roots are starting to come out the drainage holes, so it definintely needs a bigger pot) So in a few days that should arrive, i'll rince it a bit then add the peat from littleshopofhorrors and fingers crossed, that makes it a little happier. I'm going to try to be as inevasive as possible, just in case. I'll have to cut the smaller pot off anyway. Any suggestions/warnings before I do this? I've heard the hybrids are fairly robust but i'm still wary. I really should snap a picture of it and see what you lot think and how I can really boost it's chances of survival (short of dumping it outside and hoping for the best) It's definintely gotten taller, but the pitchers aren't as dense as maybe one or two years ago. Do think this is just because it's run out of space to grow or a cumulative effect of everything? Should I be worried? It doesn't look unhealthy it just well, isn't as overgrown as it once was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple_monkfish Posted June 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 I've been struck by inspiration! I could.. possibly if it fits, rehome my sar to the outside windowsill. They're fairly wide after all. My only concern then would be having to check its water regularly as it wouldn't get as much rain as an unsheltered plant. Think that would work? It'd keep it off the ground (which is something i'd like to do so people don't trip over it for one thing.. yes, our garden is THAT small) but it'll give it a taste of the great outdoors so to speak. IF I can fit it and the water tray onto that sill, do you guys think that'd be a good idea? Is there any way to secure or weight the pot so it doesn't get blown off during those october/november storms? What do those of you with limited space do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 I'd be a bit wary of leaving it on a windowsill outside - personally I'd be worried about the wind blowing it off if we have a storm etc. How about a larger plastic or wooden planter - something a bit larger will be less likely to get knocked or blown over. If you are going to leave it outside put it out asap that way it will have a little longer to get used to its new enviroment. It doesnt have to be in sheltered spot but it does help - I have sarras in a wooden barrel and that has no protection from the rain, wind, snow etc and they're fine - they wake up from dormancy later than the ones in the greenhouse but aside from that they're happier enough. Might not be recommended in colder areas like Scotland but its not too bad in Yorkshire, atleast here in Sheffield the weather isnt overly harsh. Failing all other options leave it in the kitchen but turn the heating off completely and monitor the temps - you'll know if it goes dormant as growth will slow/stop but it does need to have cold temps for several months for a good dormancy. The only thing is surely the kitchen will get quite warm if you're cooking in there!! Outside in a planter sounds like the best option to me if you can find the space, atleast you can be sure it will definitely get a good dormancy that way. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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