How to keep a bog wet for longer?

[Nepenthes Nut]

I am trying to plan a way of linking a water butt directly to a bog garden (one that I may build if my parents move over seas again...) so that I can leave it knowing that it wont dry out. So other than getting a neighbor to water it, what can one do to make an automatic watering system or ensure than watering can be infrequent (I hear upturned buckets work... but how many holes do they need drilled and where on the bucket? How is that different to just filling it up with peat at the bottom?).

Any ideas or advice would be much appreciated.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Nepenthes Nut

[mantrid]

I am trying to plan a way of linking a water butt directly to a bog garden (one that I may build if my parents move over seas again...) so that I can leave it knowing that it wont dry out. So other than getting a neighbor to water it, what can one do to make an automatic watering system or ensure than watering can be infrequent (I hear upturned buckets work... but how many holes do they need drilled and where on the bucket? How is that different to just filling it up with peat at the bottom?).

Any ideas or advice would be much appreciated.

You could rig up one of those overflow cut off valves that cuts of the water in your water tank or toilet when it reaches a set height. You would need to position it so it stops the water flow at the optimum water level in your bog. You could rig it in an old cistern or if you are a bit snotty about such things you could purchase a plastic tank (central heating expansion tank is perfect) that would be visually more pleasing. You would simply attach your pipe from the water butt to the cut off valve and hey presto an automatic watering system. The only problem would be if we get a drought and the water butt dries up. But not blinking likely.

To resolve this you could attach a sensor to the but that will detect low water level and send an email through your computer to your address abroad and you could then phone neighbour to sort it out.

Or you could attach your neighbour directly to the sensor and cut down on your phone bill. But I feel he/she would object, selfish so and sos.

[Nepenthes Nut]

I had thought of doing something like that but was told that the valve may not close properly and dribble with these low pressures and the float from the cistern may no exert enough pressure... but if anyone has tried such a system I would be grateful to hear how they did it.

[mantrid]

I had thought of doing something like that but was told that the valve may not close properly and dribble with these low pressures and the float from the cistern may no exert enough pressure... but if anyone has tried such a system I would be grateful to hear how they did it.

The float is pushed up by the water in the tank and has nothing to do with the water pressure in the butt. It doesnt leak in my house so there would be no reason for it to leak in a bog set up. I think this leaking business only occurs on old valves that have sat in the attic for decades. Of course the rubbers eventually wear out. If they were leaky from new and unreliabe, I dont think they would be standard pieces of kit in almost every home. I'm sure it would work.

[Nepenthes Nut]

Maybe it was just scaling it down that would prove a problem due to the smaller float not putting enough pressure to seal it...so other than putting a bog in the bog garden, any other ideas, possibly how to make it so I can water once every two weeks or something? Or just as infrequently as possible...

[mantrid]

Maybe it was just scaling it down that would prove a problem due to the smaller float not putting enough pressure to seal it...so other than putting a bog in the bog garden, any other ideas, possibly how to make it so I can water once every two weeks or something? Or just as infrequently as possible...

Dont scale it down use the ball the valve came with. If its taking up too much space bury it in the ground or even in the corner of the bog itself if it is big enough.

You wont need to wory about getting it to water every two weeks. What if you get alot of rain, then two weeks would be too much, or a drought, then two weeks would be too long. The beauty of the system is that it keeps the bog water at exactly the right level regardless. In a drought the valve will open more often as water is evaporating/transpiring faster. And in the rain the bog will be full anyway so the valve will remain closed. On the issue of rain, ensure you have a pipe coming from the bog set at the correct height to drain excess water if the weather starts flooding the bog.

I cant think of a cheaper, simpler system than this. You could even get all the parts free if you can find second hand stuff people are throwing away.

[Nepenthes Nut]

If it really were that simple you would think that more people would have done it...

[mantrid]

If it really were that simple you would think that more people would have done it...

People are generally lazy and they would only spend, time, effort and money (particularly time and effort) doing something if there was no alternative. Most would ask a neighbour or relative to do the watering while they are away, much simpler. I would love to rig up something like this but my house is on a hill side and the garden is steep. Not a problem in itself but I have stepped it to create 4 flat areas an so to do a good job I would have to lay the pipes under the walls forming the steps. It is just too much hassle.

[jesse]

If it really were that simple you would think that more people would have done it...

The main problem is, that valves for clean water will fail after short time when used with dirt water.

If some kind of dirt is present in the water, such as leaves, pollen, mosquito larvae etc, any valve construction designed for clean water will become leaky after short time and the water will rinse through the valve with a little water stream. If you are lucky and it becomes leaky with some drops per minute, might be OK. If it becomes leaky with some litres per minute, might be too much watering.

[Nepenthes Nut]

That is true and definitely something to think about, but a stocking over the water butt outlet might filter off most of the contaminants in the water before they reach the valve plus my butt is reasonably clean so shouldnt have to replace/clean it too often I hope.

Anyone think it would be feasible to grow aquatic utricularia in the reservoir for it?

[mantrid]

The main problem is, that valves for clean water will fail after short time when used with dirt water.

If some kind of dirt is present in the water, such as leaves, pollen, mosquito larvae etc, any valve construction designed for clean water will become leaky after short time and the water will rinse through the valve with a little water stream. If you are lucky and it becomes leaky with some drops per minute, might be OK. If it becomes leaky with some litres per minute, might be too much watering.

It goes without saying that your water butt should have a filter otherwise it would be pointless collectiong it. All the dead insects dirt and plant material will break down making your water a soup of nutrients.

[Nepenthes Nut]

I suppose I will experiment with an old toilette if i can find one... Any ideas for bog design to make it more water efficient other than a deep one?

[mantrid]

I suppose I will experiment with an old toilette if i can find one... Any ideas for bog design to make it more water efficient other than a deep one?

I can think of one but it wont be very attractive to look at. You would rather have the large water loss I think. Here it is anyway.

Cover the bog with polythene (pref white to stop it getting too hot on sunny days), and cut little holes through which the plants will grow.

Told you you wouldnt like it :)

[Nepenthes Nut]

Yes, I can see how that would help and also why i wouldn't do it...

Is there no one other than Mantrid with any helpful suggestions? Have I put this in a section no one reads?

[Nepenthes Nut]

No one?

[sumatra]

If it really were that simple you would think that more people would have done it...

I have only just read this thread, but just to say I have been using this system in my greenhouse for years. I have simply used basic tanks and floats from the nearest DIY place. I know next to nothing about plumbing but I have used floats designed for low pressure systems.

Using one or two simple filters obviously makes sense, but butts deliver fairly clean water as their taps are usually a few inches above the bottom, where any sediment settles.

I have often fantasized about watering a bog by this system and it would be my first choice. In most gardens you can run a hose (which are not expensive) a fair distance and disguise it easily. Remember it is the level in the tank with the float which will govern the height of water in the bog, and the tank will obviously be close to the bog. The water butt can be anywhere providing it is at a higher level than the tank.

[Nepenthes Nut]

I have only just read this thread, but just to say I have been using this system in my greenhouse for years. I have simply used basic tanks and floats from the nearest DIY place. I know next to nothing about plumbing but I have used floats designed for low pressure systems.

Using one or two simple filters obviously makes sense, but butts deliver fairly clean water as their taps are usually a few inches above the bottom, where any sediment settles.

I have often fantasized about watering a bog by this system and it would be my first choice. In most gardens you can run a hose (which are not expensive) a fair distance and disguise it easily. Remember it is the level in the tank with the float which will govern the height of water in the bog, and the tank will obviously be close to the bog. The water butt can be anywhere providing it is at a higher level than the tank.

I think that that is exactly what I will do. I will have a bog in a planter above ground connected to a tank with the float valve in at the desired level and that connected to the water butt. Am I to assume you have found that the ballcock valve system works for you, closing even at this low pressure? How far below soil level do you keep the water set at?

[mantrid]

I think that that is exactly what I will do. I will have a bog in a planter above ground connected to a tank with the float valve in at the desired level and that connected to the water butt. Am I to assume you have found that the ballcock valve system works for you, closing even at this low pressure? How far below soil level do you keep the water set at?

Its the weight or the ball and arm that OPENS the valve NOT the pressure of the water flowing from the butt.

And its the density of the water in the tank relative to the density of the ball that creates the force to close it, NOT the volume or pressure of the water in the tank.

[Nepenthes Nut]

Its the weight or the ball and arm that OPENS the valve NOT the pressure of the water flowing from the butt.

And its the density of the water in the tank relative to the density of the ball that creates the force to close it, NOT the volume or pressure of the water in the tank.

It definitely is the Volume in the tank (if you meant the tank with the valve in...) that closes it... but i see what you mean.

[mantrid]

It definitely is the Volume in the tank (if you meant the tank with the valve in...) that closes it... but i see what you mean.

You could have a tall thin tank with very little volume and it would work just as well as a tank that was the same height but was much fatter with alot more water in it. So long as there is sufficient vertical height for the ball to move up and down enough to move the valve from its fully open to fully closed position. You may even be able to shorten the arm somewhat so you can use a smaller tank (one with the ball in).

If you do undertake this project post some pics as you proceed. Makes things interesting on the forum, bit like watching one of those DIY programmes on the box.

[Nepenthes Nut]

I will try to remember to take some snaps then, if I don't get too caught up in the excitement.

The height of the water in the tank with the valve matters enormously because that water level is the water level you will get in your bog... so thin and tall wont be too good unless the valve was placed half way down...

Edited June 9, 2009 by Nepenthes Nut

[mantrid]

I will try to remember to take some snaps then, if I don't get too caught up in the excitement.

The height of the water in the tank with the valve matters enormously because that water level is the water level you will get in your bog... so thin and tall wont be too good unless the valve was placed half way down...

The important thing to get right is that the ball position when the valve is closed is at the height you want the water to be at in your bog. If the tank is deeper than the bog just sink in lower into the ground, this is easier than having to move the valve half way down. or even bend the arm so the ball is lower (providing its metal). I think the modern plastic ones are even better, you can adjust the vertical position of the ball easily. They employ a number of designs to do this, but one popular one is the ball can be slid along a vertical plastic rail that connects to the arm. Look forward to seeing the result.