Nepenthes cultivation

[manders]

Well, I now know I didn't need to bother with the water butt, might as well use tap water, and that I need to buy some RO or distilled water for my seedlings. (Clearly some species seedlings aren't as bothered by it as those in the ICPS test, but maybe it explains a few losses also).

The other thing I learned is that my rainwater is probably quite polluted...

[Dicon]

Manders, what kind of roof does it run off? eg concrete tiles? cast iron gutter, wooden or plastic butt?

Edited January 11, 2009 by Dicon

[manders]

Manders, what kind of roof does it run off? eg concrete tiles? cast iron gutter, wooden or plastic butt?

Dicon,

I think they are clay, but i need to check, the rest is all plastic piping or conservatory roof. It is possible our rain is quite polluted as we are downwind of runcorn (shell, INEOS, high cancer rates, yada yada). My parents rain water, upstream of runcorn, is better quality @60uS, that's off the greenhouse roof, still not good enough. I'm going to be doing some serious checking / investigating / recalibrating test equipment over the next few days...

Luckily our tap water is probably from Wales...

[Dicon]

Manders, I personally would not be too worried about your rainwater quality.

I think the report that has you spooked is seedling specific and needs to be taken in context.

I will say, that I have had mixed sucess with germination of Nep seeds and whilst I did not really realize it at the time, my better sucess came when using RO water rather than rain.

This however, is purely speculation as the seeds were not the same and may just not have been viable!

I live under the clouds of rain produced by Drax and it is considerably better than the tap water. (I use a PPM meter)

My tap water is 280-350ppm and the rain is 50 to 80ppm.

The PH of rainwater is much more favourable also.

You may also have heard of Dave Parks probably the largest grower of Disa orchids in the country, who lives between Drax and Eggborough, he uses the rain and Disa's are much more sensitive than Neps.

Sarras and Hellis get the rain too.

It is important to keep your rainwater as clean as possible as the sludge at the bottom of the butt is much more likely to to be a problem as it builds up. (put an old stocking or pop sock over the end of your downpipe to catch the sludge....you'll be amazed)

I pressure wash my storage system at least twice a year. I also filter and purify my water further with a uv and bio filter constantly circulating my final 55gal holding tank which is kept at greenhouse temperature so as not to shock the plants (important for lowlanders)

This all results in a ppm of about 45. (I'm not sure of the exact conversion to ms, roughly 2x ppm to give ms I think, so it is still way over what is noted in that article)

I also feed to root at 180ppm which even by orchid standards is extremely weak and have had no problems. (some orchid growers feed at over 800ms)

One of the problems with using RO water is that it has NO Calcium which ALL plants need. (not all fertilizers have it either)

IMO RO water is fine for seeds and if nothing else prevents pathogens being introduced, but to use in place of fresh rainwater (where available) for everyday use is pointless.

[mobile]

This all results in a ppm of about 45. (I'm not sure of the exact conversion to ms, roughly 2x ppm to give ms I think, so it is still way over what is noted in that article)

1 mS/cm = 640 ppm TDS; therefore, 45 ppm TDS = 0.0703 mS/cm (70.3 µS/cm).

[manders]

Dicon, I do have seeds now that are doing great on this rainwater. But also i've had seeds in the past that germinated grew well for a while and then faded away and it did coincide with me moving house and collecting this local rainwater, maybe coincidence and maybe not. Ill definitely switch to RO water on some of my new seeds.

[fly guy]

That's very interesting and useful thread.

As somebody asked about Rajah, I consider it as a slow grower but mine is pitchering regularly. I do think that N. rajah likes very high humidity (above 80%) and rather wet than moist subsoil. I use 1. peat 2. perlite 3. bark in 3:1:1 ratio with sphagnum on the top. My plant in young and small but in 1 year produced about 8 seedlings.

On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend wet subsoil for N. Petiolata. I lost mine because of this.

I really can't wait for the results of your work, Derek.

[Bojahnik]

I've got very often intervals of very good growing and then my plants starts to stop their fast pitcher production and now also the further growing of already half developed seedpods. I already started to see some context with fresh rain. When we had some raining periods the plants grew better. I collect the rainwater in 200 liter barrels. This thread strengthens my suspicion that there is some development going on in the barrels which isn't positive for the neps. Unfortunately my Conductivity meter is broken and I can't afford a new one atm. So I'll use reverse osmosis water for the next weeks to see if I get any success because some of my plants are atm a bit reluctant.

[Simon Lumb]

Hi Derek,

I'm glad your inermis and dubia are doing well (havent I been telling you for years to put these species in sphagnum), you've started a really interesting thread and I look forward to talking with you about your findings. However, from my own experience and I've been growing neps since 1988 I have found that with the exception of a handful of species the rest grow well in sphagnum. As you know my entire collection is potted in sphagnum and I've posted many pictures over the years that are testament to how well they grow. I'm not saying that all the plants are in optimal media or that they all grow at a rapid rate, but the plants are healthy (thick stems, strong leaves etc). However there are couple fundamentals first; I only use live sphagnum (not the dead, dyed rubbish in GCs) and secondly when I water I'm not actually watering the plants rather I'm watering the moss on the surface (if you do this you will avoid overwatering the plants). In my hands, the health of the moss in the pot is a litmus test for the health of the plant. I repot when I think the pot is becoming 'choked' but again into a bigger pot with the same media. I can honestly say that in the 20+ yrs of growing I reckon I have only lost a handful of plants due to wrong culture conditions, admitedly I have lost my entire collection (twice) but this has been due to heater/power failures whilst away on winter holidays.

The other point I would debate, is that you claim small plants are fussy when moved around. Again in my hands small plants are very adaptable and I personally avoid buying plants above a certain size. The reason, for me larger plants have already become aclimatised and unless you put it back into the same environment or better it will react, usally badly(please transfer those 'highland' amp seedlings to your highland house now, as they are probably not true highlanders, this way you will get them hardened early. If they are too big when you move them to a colder climate growth will slow and the leaves will reduce dramatically in size, leaving you with a funny looking plants).

As you know I only grow highland neps and my growing conditions are quite harsh, I dont use lights or misters, but I think I over the years I have a trained eye for healthy plants and when things 'dont look right'. I've also mentioned to you before how important a good sense of smell is, I know when my greenhouse smells right. Neps grow in a humid, damp atmosphere and a good nep house should smell like a walk in the woods after its rained. Crikey I never knew I was that poetic.

To some up, what I'm trying to say is that whilst I agree some species really are quite fastidious and need more complex growth mixtures, experince (which can be a multitude of things) and of course patience often determines successful growth. However I do wish I had the space and numbers of plants to try a few other mixes on my slower growers.

Cheers

Simon

Edited January 17, 2009 by Simon Lumb

[tonyc]

Oops.

Edited January 17, 2009 by tonyc

[tonyc]

Has anyone ever struggled with a particular species only to hear someone else say how easy it is?

The Nep I can't grow is macrophylla, my seedling just died after four and a half years lingering. Nothing obviously wrong, it just sat there putting out a new leaf and pitcher every now and again but never getting any bigger. Oddly enough, I bought a x trusmadiensis last year and it's romping away in identical conditions.

[vraev]

Amazing post Simon. Could u please give your take on rajah? I have one plant growing in a "80% orchid bark, 20% LFS mix". THis plant was initially in a 100% sphagnum mix....which had a small growth window of 3 months where it thrived...but since then its been 8 months and the plant was stressed at every single little variable change until I decided I'll go for an open mix...just in case.

The second one is growing in my standard nep mix: orchid bark, perlite, charcoal, LFS with the first 3 forming 60% of the base mix. It was actually thriving inititally but now has slowed down.

[wadave]

What an awesome thread,

It seems like most feel that there are too many factors to consider when looking for an answer to; "what's the best way".

Derek, it would certainly help those of us who have not got much experience with a particular species to see what soil mix we should start with so I reckon go for it.

It certainly has been my frustration from time to time when researching for the right way to grow a new species that I want to add to the collection and I can't find anything that makes me feel confident I'm doing it right.

Dave.

[Derek]

Hi Dave,

I'll post early observations shortly; but I must emphasize that there are more factors to consider than just media, but I have found some good results, especially as it's winter here so an improvement in growth cannot be put down to the weather. Quite the reverse in fact. Give me a couple of days.

cheers, Derek.

[Steve Stewart]

Great thread!

I only want to add that there are many species of "bark" and many species of Sphagnum. I have grown many lowland Nepenthes species successfully with live Sphagnum sp., and "Orchid bark" but I know the species of trees and the type of bark I have used. Different growing conditions will determine which species each grower has luck with.

For instance Taxodium distinchum bark is great for Orchids, but not good for Nepenthes. Wood chips from this species are great in a Nepenthes mix, if watered enough. This tree is common in the S.E. US. but there is concern about it's overuse in horticulture, because of the eco systems destroyed in havesting it, just like Sphagnum.

I won't go on, I just think a well thought out mix is the only way to be certain of success when cultivating certain rare difficult to grow plants. Thorough washing and rinsing of charcol used in mixes can also avoid fatal transplant shock.

Take care,

Steve Stewart

[Muel]

Im currently growing all my neps on a south facing windowsill in 1 pot (long windowbox thing) in peat/gravel with 1 in peat/perlite/sphag potted seperatley because of its size. Theyre all doing fine! The N. veitchii has some sphag around its roots and the N. argentinii has an area around it of sphag to help pitchering. N. bokor is even on there growing away and its rather cold at the moment

During summer the windows are always on vent and i'll be putting something to provide some shade where the plants need it and that should suffice for burn prevention. Will be interesting to see how a couple of them fare in summer but my fingers are crossed.

Im more of a serial cephalotus killer myself....dont know why!

Sam.

[Derek]

Hi,

As promised, here are some early observations.

Diatas, densiflora and ovata have all responded incredibly well to adding moss peat to the media. The leaves on 3 ovatas were turning white, getting smaller and the plants were failing. New media, and they immediately picked up and all are now growing well. The same goes for the other 2 species. I'd always had trouble with these species, yet when I asked around there were loads of people growing them like weeds. Those who were most successful seemed to have one thing in common- peat.

Dubia, inermis. 2 more problem species. I lose these plants if I grow them in a peat mix, or any mix other than pure live LFS. They are romping away in this. 2 years ago I was looking after Simon Lumbs plants whilst he moved house, and his inermis was thriving and mine was dieing and they were side by side, and they both came from the same source. The only difference? His was in LFS. This is probably because these species are epiphitic.

Campanulata, northiana. These are now growing in an inert mix. I figure that if they grow on limestone in the wild, then we probably need to avoid acid mixes of any sort. They grow in vermiculite, pumice, seramis and perlite. I'm shortly going to experiment with adding some oyster shell. Campanulata never did that well for me but since the change of media, it has made bigger pitchers than ever, and all 3 are now very healthy.

These are just preliminary observations, and yes I'm sure there are people reading this who have had great success where I have failed; but this is working well for me therefore I will stick at it. And if it helps someone else along the way, then even better. If anyone else has had experinece of using different media, then PLEASE post.

We must also remember there are many species that will grow and do well in almost anything.

cheers, Derek.

[faunista]

Very interesting observations Derek. I also have some trouble with diatas and ovata, and they're growing mostly in sphagnum/perlite. I think I'll try to put a couple of my ovata in a more peaty soil, so, and look what happens. It also seems to me that ovata doesn't like much light, have you ever noticed this?

I have densiflora in a peat/bark/perlite/LFS with live sphagnum on top and they grow very well and healthy (ehm, and very slowly..! )

[Derek]

My peat mix is; 1 third peat moss- 1 third sphagnum- 1 third vermiculite, seramis etc. The sphagnum used here is dried and then re-hydrated.

[Mathijs]

Can anyone please tell if aristolochioides needs anything special in its soil?

Mine grows very slow, and it won't pitcher.

[Derek]

They tend to grow well in pure live sphagnum. I also have some doing well in a mix of live lfs, orchid bark and vermiculite.

[Mathijs]

Thanks!

[wadave]

How about hamata,

What is the best mix for this one?

I currently have it growing in 100% live sphagnum moss.

Dave.

[faunista]

How about hamata,

What is the best mix for this one?

I currently have it growing in 100% live sphagnum moss.

Dave.

I'm sure hamata will be fine in sphagnum. I have to say that I find hamata a very easy plant, maybe the easiest of my highland "collection": mine is thriving in peat/perlite/bark (and lava rock? I don't remember..! :-)).

I have two plants, and soon I'll try to put one in a mix of dead sphagnum, perlite, and maybe live sphagnum on top.

Marco

[Derek]

One of the key points in hamata cultivation is humidity. They normally require higher than usual, so they will nearly always do well in a terranium. I had a hairy hamata that never did well and was indeed failing, then Andy Smith gave me the humidity requirements, and I put a strawberry container upside down on top of the seedling to produce its own mini environment. The difference was effective and immediate; the little seedling started growing and has now quadrupled in size in a year. The strawberry container has gone and I need to think about something bigger for the summer. Hope this helps.

Derek.