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Norfolk Utric


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I had the chance to walk around a closed site, access to RSPB only, and came across several patches of U. intermedia in flower. Unfortunately I didn't take a camera , luckily a colleague did :thumbsup: .

They were growing in mud, with hardly any water over them, some growing right on the surface of liquid peat. All sites were enclosed by Reed with little light reaching the surface of the mud ..... until we pushed aside the offending grasses! Also, they grew in isolated patches of peat with a single opening to a drainage ditch (dykes up here).

Super to see, just U. minor to see in the wild now!

Both images taken by Elaina Slark.

Uintermedia-sml-2-02072008.jpg

Uintermedia-sml-3-02072008.jpg

Enjoy!

Shame we couldn't access the Fen Orchids!!!!!

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I had the chance to walk around a closed site, access to RSPB only, and came across several patches of U. intermedia in flower. Unfortunately I didn't take a camera , luckily a colleague did :D .

They were growing in mud, with hardly any water over them, some growing right on the surface of liquid peat. All sites were enclosed by Reed with little light reaching the surface of the mud ..... until we pushed aside the offending grasses! Also, they grew in isolated patches of peat with a single opening to a drainage ditch (dykes up here).

Super to see, just U. minor to see in the wild now!

Both images taken by Elaina Slark.

Uintermedia-sml-2-02072008.jpg

Uintermedia-sml-3-02072008.jpg

Enjoy!

Shame we couldn't access the Fen Orchids!!!!!

Looks to me like Utricularia vulgaris.

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Looks to me like Utricularia vulgaris.

Except that this is an acid Fen and that water is millimeters deep. The Norfolk U.vulgaris flourishes in deep, high pH, meso to eutrophic waters and has a red flush to the flowers. It has been positively identified as intermedia by the RSPB.

I grow U. vulgaris in acidic water as recommended in several books and have had it mistaken for intermedia, because it is puny. Compared to our local vulgaris it looks like a miniature.

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Very nice, Bob :-)

But I also think that this is U.vulgaris. Though the European aquatic species look quite similar to each other (please forgive me Andreas :P), U. intermedia and U. vulgaris can not be mistaken. Do you have a picture of the leaves?

It has been positively identified as intermedia by the RSPB
That does not mean that U. vulgaris does not grow in there as well...

This one looks exactly like my U. vulgaris, though I would not swear it is not U. australis. We are still waiting on Andreas' second part of the yellow thread, where he will show us how to differentiate those two.

BTW, here the link to part I :

http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?s...1&hl=stygia

Regards

Martin

Edited by Martin Hingst
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Very nice, Bob :-)

But I also think that this is U.vulgaris. Though the aquatic species look quite similar to each other (please forgive me Andreas :P), U. intermedia and U. vulgaris can not be mistaken. Do you have a picture of the leaves?

That does not mean that U. vulgaris does not grow in there as well...

This one looks exactly like my U. vulgaris, though I would not swear it is not U. australis. We are still waiting on Andreas' second part of the yellow thread, where he will show us how to differentiate those two.

BTW, here the link to part I :

http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?s...1&hl=stygia

Regards

Martin

The site in question was surveyed prior to purchase a few years ago, and is routinely updated, by the RSPB and vulgaris wasn't found in any year.

I can see the similarities in flower form but, the plants grow so differently. This one had no visible leaves above the surface of the VERY fluid mud (closest I could get was 2 feet) and had sent 'roots' into the mud. The plants formed long strung out lines, with just a couple of spikes visible.

The only possible mistake could be that it is minor (????) rather than intermedia, vulgaris wouldn't grow well enough to survive long in this oligotrophic fen???? At least I wouldn't have thought it could.

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Hi Bob,

OK, when it has sent roots in the mud - that speaks strongly against vulgaris. But the water level of these fens normally differs greatly throughout the year. While vulgaris of course prefers much deeper water, in mid/late summer I have observed it in even already fallen dry ponds.

Regards

Martin

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Hi Martin,

Yes I agree.

I have to admit that I couldn't ID it at first, I thought vulgaris but, the warden pointed out that this area of fen was routinely drier ....... and that the Utric had been checked out as intermedia! I'm not experienced enough to get there myself.

The fen in question (sorry I can't name it, they will shoot me if I do), is only truly inundated during the winter as it is flooded by the nearby river. The Utric was found in pockets of peat slurry draining into the drainage ditch (dyke).

I appreciate the interest and desire to offer a correct ID, Thank you.

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Hi Bob,

thanks for your efforts.

I will not claim to be any expert here either, and hope that I did not sound this way.

The point withe the oligotrophic conditions was another one against vulgaris, that loves more nutrient rich water (but occurs in poor water either, but I wonder if it will flower in there).

But if it this fen gets its water (at least part time) from this river, I wonder how poor the water really is? I have no idea of this river though.

Maybe Andreas will help us out here too.

Regards

Martin

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Hello Bob,

I have to disagree with the identification that the RSPB gave you (nobody is perfect! ;)). These flowers shown on your photographs definitely belong to Utricularia vulgaris!! The reflexed margins of the upper corolla lip, the shape and angle of the corolla lip and the palate, which forms an acute angle with the upper lip - these characters are highly diagnostic for U. vulgaris! Moreover, the inflorescence of U. intermedia (and U. minor, U. stygia, U. ochroleuca, U. bremii) is much more lax like the condensed one shown on your photos.

I have seen U. australis and U. vulgaris in very shallow pools, where they did not float, but grew just above the soil surface. Lateral stolons can even grow below soil surface, where they do not develop chloroplasts, i.e. appear white, like underground stolons! And another possibility: Both U. intermedia and U. vulgaris are likely to grow in that fen. Maybe RSPB has identified the vegetative parts of U. intermedia (or whatever other species grows there), and you caught U. vulgaris in flower.

I'm involved in botanical monitoring projects of bird habitats here in southern Bavaria (the LBV is the German analogue to the British RSPB ;)), where I encountered many Utricularia species (habitats where the common snipe thrives are perfect for Utricularia, too ;)). Usually there's a lot of confusion about the identity of these plants, and most IDs are not correct. Even the big herbaria, an estimated 30% of all herbarium specimens of European Utricularia species are missidentified ;).

All the best,

Andreas

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In that case, there will be some unhappy Botanist employed by the RSPB ......... Not to mention myself! Still have to find both minor and intermedia now.

Thanks for the defining description Andreas, and to those others who TRIED to make me see what was there. I sit corrected.

:woot::roll::D:wink:

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