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Hello to all,

I was in the area for work, so on May 11th I went to the New Jersey Pine Barrens with a few local CPers: Rich Sivertsen, Jason Ksepka, Dave Evans & Sundew Matt. We visited several interesting CP sites and had a great time!

We started with a well-known area where there's a boardwalk over a large marshy area. It was actually sandy soil covered with a layer of black peat and shallow water (although I was told the water was higher than usual for this time of year). Here are some of the plants we saw there...

First a view of the habitat:

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S.purpurea subsp. purpurea:

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D.filiformis subsp.filiformis:

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D.filiformis subsp.filiformis & leaves of U.juncea:

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D.intermedia were very reddish here:

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D.rotundifolia (R ) & D.intermedia (L):

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D.rotundifolia:

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U.striata:

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At another site there were some long-stemmed D.internedia growing at the edges of a lake. Can you see al the leaves sticking out of the water in the pic below?

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Nearby we saw lots of sundews, including these D.filiformis on drier ground and some plants with old inflorescences:

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At a different site we saw our only D.intermedia X filiformis of the day:

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There was also U.purpurea:

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And some more aquatic D.intermedia (notice the U.striata growing around the base):

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Edited by Fernando Rivadavia
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We stopped at 2 lakes that had U.inflata. I was surprised at how huge the floats were:

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And here's what was below the floats:

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The last site we went was actually a long hike on marshy ground along a river. We had fun sinking in the freezing mud! :) Here's Rich & I looking at some red rosetted thingy or other (pic by Jason):

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Here I am sinking in the mud (pic by Jason):

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Here's the largest S.purpurea we saw:

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They were just opening their 1st flowers:

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Sundews were all over, carpeting the ground & mixed with the S.purpurea:

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Here's the largest D.rotundifolia I saw:

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One of our big goals that day was to not only see D.rotundifolia X intermedia, but to find an enigmatic site where there were dozens (hundreds?) of these hybrids growing in a very small area. All of the plants below are this hybrid!

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Here's a close-up:

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And here's D.rotundifolia X intermedia growing with the parents and D.filiformis:

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And here we are, from left to right, Jason, me, Rich & Dave (pic by Matt):

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Thanks guys, I had a great time!! ;)

Best Wishes,

Fernando Rivadavia

Edited by Fernando Rivadavia
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Hi Fernando,

thanks for another set of great fieldtrip pics!

Looking at your beautiful photos, and bearing in mind a recent comment of yours - I could get the impression that you may be a perfectionist as well maybe? :smile: with taking pics I mean - not your manicure :cool:

I like the filiformis shots on the black peat in particular. Maybe a bit less depth of field, and the algae would have disappeared in haziness ...

And this nice rotundifolia shot in the Sphagnum of course!

Regards

Martin

Edited by Martin Hingst
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Hi Fernando,

great pictures, sure it has been a nice fieldtrip. :smile:

I really like these pictures with the Drosera looking out of the water. The U.inflata floats are also very nice and really huge. :cool:

The "Drosera group picture" is very interesting too.

You have found some hybrids, have you found also D. filiformis x rotundifolia?

Another question, is for example D. intermedia x filiformis looking identical in comparison to D. filiformis x intermedia, same with the other hybrids?

Why do we know that it is for example D. intermedia x filiformis and not D. filiformis x intermedia? Do we know it because of man made hybrids between them?

Best regards,

Dani

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Hello guys,

Martin: I am certainly not a perfectionist with pics, hehehe! Although some do come out nice once in a while, I do not have the patience to sit around taking too many pics or trying to make them look really nice. No tripods or worries about depth of field, exposure, etc. Just click, click, click! If it comes out nice -- great! But they often don't, as you can tell by other pictures. ;)

Dani: I do not know who was the mother plant in these hybrids, they wouldn't tell us! :) I have never heard of natural D.rotundifolia X filiformis -- nor D.filiformis X rotundifolia, hehehe!

Best Wishes,

fernando Rivadavia

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Ah! Your photos increase my urge to explore CP sites!

Yes, it is funny that we never hear of natural hybrids between D. filiformis and D. rotundifolia (and neither between D. anglica and D. intermedia) while there ARE artificial versions of those hybrids.

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This natural hybrid between D. filiformis and D. intermedia (D. hybrida) may be the only one left in the NJ Pine Barrens, and this particular site once had dozens of them; now only a few plants remain as the site is changing due to succession. I found this site back in the late 70's by accident actually, and have a funny story about it, which I'll post in another thread: http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=27418

Thanks Fernando for the great photography, and a fun time! :smile: - Rich

Edited by rsivertsen
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WoW: Drosera*HYBRIDA Good-Score / Find.

I-Saw a Paper Last-Year on Drosera-rotundifolia Hybrids and in-it They Had an-Unusal-one I-Had Never 'Heard'-of, Knew-about or Ever 'Seen' in a Book or on The Web.

It was a KONDO-Publication. "Twig" Anyone's Memories? It Certainly was a Hybrid to Appreciate and Perhaps even 'Own'!!!??? >(*U^)<

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How-Come it's 2000-&-8 as-well-as being Seven-Years Since the Publication of SCHNELL-II and We're Only-'Know' Realising Just 'How'-Big Utricularia-radiata Floats are!!!??? >(*~*)< / >(*U^)<

Thank-God for CPUK Field-Trips ... Travel-The-World Never-Leave Your Seat! >(*U^)<

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Hello,

Fernando, nice field report, thanks for sharing. I was not aware that U. striata can grow as a hardy species as well (I knew of U. purpurea from Canada, which tolerates freezing), as it does not form turions at all. But as there are hardy strains of U. gibba, why not U. striata as well?

Khelljuhg,

Yes, it is funny that we never hear of natural hybrids between D. filiformis and D. rotundifolia (and neither between D. anglica and D. intermedia) while there ARE artificial versions of those hybrids.

I never have heard of D. rotundifolia x filiformis occuring naturally as well. But D. anglica x intermedia DOES occur in the wild, at least in Europe. However it's a very rare natural hybrid (much less common than D. x obovata and D. x beleziana), and I have seen it in just 2 bogs in southern Germany yet, although both parent species are frequently growing sympartic in the same habitats.

Rich,

This natural hybrid between D. filiformis and D. intermedia (D. hybrida) may be the only one left in the NJ Pine Barrens, and this particular site once had dozens of them; now only a few plants remain as the site is changing due to succession.

It's puzzling to me that the population of D. x hybrida is decreasing that fast! At least in cultivation this is one of the most invasive species of the few hardy ones! Although this hybrid is sterile, it's quickly multiplying by division and young plantlets sprouting from old leaves sunken in the mud. Out of only 3 species I have bought in a garden centre in the late 80ies, I got a large carpet of D. x hybrida in my bog garden which gets bigger ever year. I even had to remove plants as they tend to overgrow other species such as D. intermedia.

But that's a phenomenon often observed in introduced invasive species: they are apparently rare in their natural habitats, but start getting invasive as soon as they get introduced into a new habitat (even if it's a manmade one ;)). Remind that D. capensis is a rather rare species in the wild in South Africa as well.....

Did you ever observe any new populations/individuals of D. x hybrida originating de novo from natural crosses of both parent plants?

Andreas

Edited by Andreas Fleischmann
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Rich,

It's puzzling to me that the population of D. x hybrida is decreasing that fast! At least in cultivation this is one of the most invasive species of the few hardy ones! Although this hybrid is sterile, it's quickly multiplying by division and young plantlets sprouting from old leaves sunken in the mud. Out of only 3 species I have bought in a garden centre in the late 80ies, I got a large carpet of D. x hybrida in my bog garden which gets bigger ever year. I even had to remove plants as they tend to overgrow other species such as D. intermedia.

But that's a phenomenon often observed in introduced invasive species: they are apparently rare in their natural habitats, but start getting invasive as soon as they get introduced into a new habitat (even if it's a manmade one ;)). Remind that D. capensis is a rather rare species in the wild in South Africa as well.....

Did you ever observe any new populations/individuals of D. x hybrida originating de novo from natural crosses of both parent plants?

Andreas

Andreas, as I mentioned, this site is rapidly changing due to succession, a natural process, as you know, where other plants fill in and change the physical properties of the site. D. filiformis has NOT been seen any where near this site in well over a decade, which raises some interesting insights to some other plants that may be of hybrid origin, where one of its original parent plants no longer exists.

I have searched for other areas where D. filiformis and D. intermedia grow in close proximity, but so far, have yet to find another location.

As you mentioned, they are very easy growers, and do multiply well in cultivation, and I'm tempted to take some of my plants and introduce them into a few protected sites where they may continue to exist in the wild for people to photograph them in habitat.

I posted a separate thread on this plant: http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=27418

Also, as for the U. striata, this is an interesting location, as it happens be one of those areas to have water percolating through most of the site all year long, and the U. striata happens to be found in those small channels where the spring waters percolate through them, keeping them from freezing solid even during the most bitter cold temperatures of winter. Some of us familiar to this micro niche have often half jokingly suggested that Darlingtonia just might survive in such an area, perhaps even Heliamphora, but then, Barry Rice would put a "hit contract" on us! ;)

- Rich

Edited by rsivertsen
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Hey Rich,

I'm under the impression here that ALL the D.X hybrida in cultivation came from that one site and that this is the only place the hybrid has been seen in the wild. Is this correct? Could it really be such a rare event? Could it even be that some tourist made them artificially by rubbing flowers together at that site, many decades ago (it is a touristy spot after all)? If so, that would explain why they're so rare and why no D.filif.X rot. were ever seen. Maybe there really is no insect attracted to both the large D.filiformis flowers and the small D.intermedia & D.rotundifolia flowers, that they can only be made artificially...

Comments?

Thanks,

Fernando Rivadavia

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hi guys

first of all, sorry for being out of touch for such a long time (andreas!), ive been really busy and am going to try to take a break this summer to catch up.

anyway, i just got an email from a friend with a forwarded message from one of his friends.

apparently, theres another x hybrida spot. :)

he sent a photo (which looks like x hybrida to me and isn't the couple of plants we saw) and said "It occurs with its parents in good numbers south of Chatsworth." ill email him back and try to get location details.

rich, i really hope youre not serious about introducing any more cultivated plants into natural habitats. :yes: im sure there are other x hybrida spots... its just a matter of finding them.

matt

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Hey Rich,

I'm under the impression here that ALL the D.X hybrida in cultivation came from that one site and that this is the only place the hybrid has been seen in the wild. Is this correct? Could it really be such a rare event? Could it even be that some tourist made them artificially by rubbing flowers together at that site, many decades ago (it is a touristy spot after all)? If so, that would explain why they're so rare and why no D.filif.X rot. were ever seen. Maybe there really is no insect attracted to both the large D.filiformis flowers and the small D.intermedia & D.rotundifolia flowers, that they can only be made artificially...

Comments?

Thanks,

Fernando Rivadavia

That site that I took you guys was the original boat launch, which was moved to the other side of this small cove/inlet of the lake. All the Drosera were constantly trampled by feet and boats, canoes, and all being dragged on top of them all, which is why I overlooked them the season before, thinking that they were just stunted D. filiformis from all the abuse they suffered. However, this is exactly how they managed to become cross pollinated, having been abused enough to delay the flowering times, and being knocked over sideways so that their flowers are in very close proximity, enough so that a lazy pollinator could just hop over from one flower to another. I doubt that they were artificial (man-made) hybrids, but one never really knows for sure about these things.

Matt, I see nothing wrong with putting a few of these D. x hybrida and D. x beleziana hybrids into a protected site such as Webbs Mill bog so that others can photograph these natural hybrids in habitat, without having to travel all over the Pine Barrens; it's not as though they are exotic imports.

- Rich

Edited by rsivertsen
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Khelljuhg,

I never have heard of D. rotundifolia x filiformis occuring naturally as well. But D. anglica x intermedia DOES occur in the wild, at least in Europe. However it's a very rare natural hybrid (much less common than D. x obovata and D. x beleziana), and I have seen it in just 2 bogs in southern Germany yet, although both parent species are frequently growing sympartic in the same habitats.

Oh, I didn't know that D. anglica X intermedia are reported there. That reminds me of a D. rotundifolia habitat in Japan, where someone discovered an assumable natural hybrid between an invasive D. intermedia and and an induced D. anglica (a Japanese form). I hear that the D. anglica gradually became smaller and then perished, but the D. intermedia seems to be still there.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...

Hey Fernando and everyone else, I just now found this thread and it prompted me to register so I can say hi. It was great getting to meet you guys, especially in the field. I hope it isn't in poor taste but since our trip was on Mother's day, and the plants were still pretty dormant, I have a few pics of the Drosera x beleziana during the growing season. Hey Rich, I went back to the hybrida spot and could not find any plants :Laie_98: Also, Jim B. told me that he and some companions found hybrida at a location near the beleziana spot years ago. At least one person with him did take pieces and as far as I know at least some of the plants in circulation today are from this location. Last year Jim came out and we tried to find plants at that location and it appears that they are also gone from that spot. So there was at least one other wild hybrida location, plus the one Matt mentioned, unless they are the same location.

DroseraintermediaXDrotundifoliaD-5.jpg

This first pic is just a nice D. x beleziana with a typical intermedia, the rest are from the plot of plants that Fernando mentioned.

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DroseraintermediaXDrotundifoliaDros.jpg

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Hey Jason, I've written off these D. hybrida plants several times in the last 20+ years in the location where I first found them, but I always seemed to find a few in later years; maybe there's still a few that will emerge. Last time I was in Lake Absegami in Bass River Forest, I only saw perhaps 4 plants left growing in a single small clump in a peripheral location to the lake, and a fairly saturated embankment at that. Fortunately, I have a small clump of them growing in my collection, and they do propagate very well from leaf cuttings! - Rich

Edited by rsivertsen
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