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Chuck 'N' Arnie


Australopithecus

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Hello to everyone here.

I have been reading through various threads on this site for the past few days and have found answers to most of the questions I have.

However, I would like to tell members about my VFT's in case there is anything more I need know that members can tell me so apologies in advance if these questions are the same old same old.

I was given two very small VFT's for Christmas which I have named Arnold Schwarzenegger and Chuck Norris.

Straight away I put both Arnie and Chuck in to a cool dark place with the bottom of each plant pot immersed in about 5mm ( quarter inch ) of rain water. Soon afterwards all the leaves and traps died off from both plants which I picked off and removed.

At the end of March I put Arnie and Chuck on a South facing window ledge ( internal ) behind a semi transparent blind. After about 2 weeks I opened the blind so that both plants are now exposed to direct sunlight all day long. I keep both plants moist at all times by keeping the bottoms of the plant pots immersed in rain water.

Both plants produced some narrow stringy like leaves and one central shoot. The central shoots grew to about 40mm ( 1 1/2 inches ) in length but then stopped when the very tip of each shoot seemed to die off.

Arnie then started growing faster than Chuck but at the end of April Arnie stopped growing and the edges of the leaves turned yellowish and/or brown as if the leaves were about die ( which they haven't so far ) . Chuck then caught up and passed Arnie and has now sent up a second central shoot that has grown to about 10 inches long with 5 buds on the end.

I have read that it is recommended that this central shoot should be cut back on young plants to allow them a chance to grow but I think it's a bit late for that now, besides, I'm hopping to harvest some seeds if I can and start off some more plants.

Can anyone tell me if the yellowing of the leaf edges is normal. Although it doesn't look very healthy both plants seem to still be growing. Chuck has produced one very small green trap and is sending up two more. Looking at Arnie it looks as if that one is also now sending up two traps.

Has anyone got any advice about the best way to induce self pollination, is it just a simple matter of inserting a cotton bud into the flowers when they form and jiggling it about a little bit. Also, what/when is the best time/method for collecting any seeds and starting off new plants.

The plant pots look very small to me and I am considering replanting them in bigger pots. I have some 100% peat based growing medium and have also bought a bag of perlite. I plan to transplant them into a mix of 2 parts peat and one part perlite. When is the best time to do this ?

Are there any other recommendations members have.

Thanks in advance.

Australopitecus

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Can you post a picture??

You say you put the plant somewhere dark and cool over winter. The best conditions for dormancy are somewhere cold but still with sunlight, that way they naturally come out of dormancy as they amount of daylight increases. Also, the pots should be kept just moist over winter instead of being sat in water. Only sit them in water during the growing period.

I'd only really recommend letting established healthy plants flower but as you say its a bit late now that you have let the flower stalks grow!! Flowering will mean that the plants grows slowly for a couple of months but it should hopefully recover.

If you are planning to repot then wait until the plants have finished flowering and are growing well again. In theory though you should be able to repot at any time of the year although I wouldnt recommend it at the moment.

If the vfts were bought for you from a garden centre then they may have not been looked after very well either which might be another reason (as well as the flowering) why they dont look very healthy.

The leaf yellowing may just be older leaves dying off but its difficult to say without know what its looks like, post a picture if you can.

Hope that helps!

Heather

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Hi Heather

Can you post a picture??

I haven't got a picture but I'll see if I can get one sorted

You say you put the plant somewhere dark and cool over winter. The best conditions for dormancy are somewhere cold but still with sunlight, that way they naturally come out of dormancy as they amount of daylight increases.

I put them at the bottom of a stairway. There's no windows there and I left the electric light swithched off so there was a very small amount of light during the day.

They did seem to speed up during March ( when the central shoots came up ).

I've read somewhere that some people recommend putting VFT's in the fridge during dormancy but obviously you don't subscribe to this theory.

Also, the pots should be kept just moist over winter instead of being sat in water. Only sit them in water during the growing period.

I kept them sitting in water all through the winter. I'll know better next winter.

I'd only really recommend letting established healthy plants flower but as you say its a bit late now that you have let the flower stalks grow!! Flowering will mean that the plants grows slowly for a couple of months but it should hopefully recover.

Well one is starting to flower and the other didn't. The one that's flowering seems to be the healthier of the two.

If you are planning to repot then wait until the plants have finished flowering and are growing well again. In theory though you should be able to repot at any time of the year although I wouldnt recommend it at the moment.

OK thanks, I'll do that then. I've read that repotting can be quite traumatic for them and can kill them. The only reason I am planning to repot is because the pots look very small to me and I was wondering if perhaps the small pots MAY have something to do with their poor progress

If the vfts were bought for you from a garden centre then they may have not been looked after very well either which might be another reason (as well as the flowering) why they dont look very healthy.

Yes, that's what I was thinking aswell although the plants looked very healthy when I got them at Christmas. Each had about half a dozen traps evenly spaced apart.

The leaf yellowing may just be older leaves dying off but its difficult to say without know what its looks like, post a picture if you can.

The leaf yellowing is from new growth.

They are producing two types of leaves ( well three if you include the traps ). One type is a very long leaf with varying widths at different points along the leaf. These are the leaves that are going yellow at the edges.

The other type is a short straight narrow leaf that sort of curls down and back in on itself. This leaf tends to just go brown at the very tip but the main part of the leaf still looks very healthy.

Thanks for the quick reply Heather

Australopithecus

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Hi

People in the UK dont bother usually putting vfts in the fridge for dormancy, I think its mainly in the USA where the winters are harshers than ours. Most people keep them outside in greenhouses so it gets pretty cold for a good dormancy.

Regarding re-potting, vfts just have a few long roots so its a good idea to give them enough room for good health but the size of the pot depends on the size of tha plant. I've never killed a vft from repotting so I wouldnt worry about that, just be gentle with them when you do it. They can look rough for a few weeks after repotting but they soon recover.

What size pot is it?? What is the diameter of the vft?? I think they will be fine for a bit longer though so try not to worry!

I think you will just need to wait to see how they grow over the next few months, hopefully they will recover but if not then I suggest you buy another one from someone on the forum rather than a garden centre where its probably not been looked after properly.

Post a picture though if you manage to sort one out.

Heather

Edited by LJ
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Hi Heather

Hi

People in the UK dont bother usually putting vfts in the fridge for dormancy, I think its mainly in the USA where the winters are harshers than ours. Most people keep them outside in greenhouses so it gets pretty cold for a good dormancy.

Aha ! right. So I more or less did the right thing then ?

Regarding re-potting, vfts just have a few long roots so its a good idea to give them enough room for good health but the size of the pot depends on the size of tha plant. I've never killed a vft from repotting so I wouldnt worry about that, just be gentle with them when you do it. They can look rough for a few weeks after repotting but they soon recover.

What size pot is it?? What is the diameter of the vft?? I think they will be fine for a bit longer though so try not to worry!

The pots are the sort of bog standard ones you get from garden centres, about three inches diameter by about three inches high. The leaves of the plants are just begining to curl over the edges of the pots.

I was looking at them today and they really do seem to be getting up to speed now. Both Chuck and Arnie are sending up two more traps each and the shoots look strong and healthy with a nice lush green look to them.

I think you will just need to wait to see how they grow over the next few months, hopefully they will recover but if not then I suggest you buy another one from someone on the forum rather than a garden centre where its probably not been looked after properly.

Yes. I think I'll wait until they look a bit better before having a go at repotting them, probably in the Autumn. I'll do one first and then leave it a while and then do the other if all goes well.

One thing I noticed yesterday, Chuck ( the one which already has a trap ) is very sensitive to movement. I moved his pot only a little bit and gently touched one of the leaves ( not the trap ) and this was sufficient to cause the trap to close. The trap didn't close completely and was open again within 24 hours

I had read somewhere that the traps were supposed to be very good at discerning the difference between genuine and false triggering but Chuck will close his trap for the slightest excuse. I understand that repeated false triggering of the traps can fatigue the plants so I think it's probably a good idea not to interfere with them too much right now.

Post a picture though if you manage to sort one out.

Heather

I'm a bit of a techno-phobe I'm afraid so I don't have a digi camera ( yet ).

I been meaning to get one for quite some time but just keep putting it off.

So if I don't buy a digi camera this week I'll borrow one from a friend and get a pic sorted out.

Thanks

Australopithecus

Edited by Australopithecus
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Hi jimscott

LOL! Chuck 'N' Arnie? How do you know they're not Xena & Gabrielle?

Yes, it was just tongue really when I called them Chuck and Arnie.

I guess I could just as easily called them Trinity and Posh Spice or something like that I suppose :biggrin:

I wanted a way to refer to them and just assumed that they were blokes ( male ) because they kill bugs I suppose :evil:

or is that sexist of me :biggrin:

I thought that VFT's were just like most other plants in that they are neither male or female but had both male and female parts to the flower.

Or do VFT's actually form two seperate genders of plants ?

Australopithecus

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You're right in thinking vfts dont have seperate genders, they have both the male and female parts in the flowers.

The size of the pots sounds ok for but it might be worth re-potting in the autumn.

It sound like your vfts are going to be fine, they are putting out new traps which is always a good sign. Just give them some time.

With the dormancy, its better to keep them somewhere that is cold but still receives natural daylight so a dark room isnt really ideal. Natural daylight means they will naturally go into dormancy and then naturally come out of it again which is the best (and easiest) way to get through the winter period.

As for the triggering process, traps will close easily but if they havent caught a good meal then they will open up again after a short while, normally I think you have to trigger 2 seperate hairs or touch 1 hair twice in rapid succession for the trap to close. If there is live prey inside the trap when it closes then the struggling prey will continue to stimulate the trigger hairs and the trap will seal properly and get on with the job of digesting the food.

Its also not a good idea to keep triggering the traps to close, the traps are only set to close a certain amount of times before the trap dies and if the traps close without getting a good meal then its a waste of energy for them.

No worries about the picture, it took me about a year after joining the forum before I figured out how to post pics!!

Heather

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You're right in thinking vfts dont have seperate genders, they have both the male and female parts in the flowers.

The size of the pots sounds ok for but it might be worth re-potting in the autumn.

It sound like your vfts are going to be fine, they are putting out new traps which is always a good sign. Just give them some time.

With the dormancy, its better to keep them somewhere that is cold but still receives natural daylight so a dark room isnt really ideal. Natural daylight means they will naturally go into dormancy and then naturally come out of it again which is the best (and easiest) way to get through the winter period.

As for the triggering process, traps will close easily but if they havent caught a good meal then they will open up again after a short while, normally I think you have to trigger 2 seperate hairs or touch 1 hair twice in rapid succession for the trap to close. If there is live prey inside the trap when it closes then the struggling prey will continue to stimulate the trigger hairs and the trap will seal properly and get on with the job of digesting the food.

Its also not a good idea to keep triggering the traps to close, the traps are only set to close a certain amount of times before the trap dies and if the traps close without getting a good meal then its a waste of energy for them.

No worries about the picture, it took me about a year after joining the forum before I figured out how to post pics!!

Heather

Hi Heather

Yes you're right. I think it's just a question of leaving them alone and letting them get on with it whilst making sure they don't dry out.

I've seen a 6 mega pixel digi camera at Tesco for 30 quid so I'm going to get one. As I say I've been meaning to buy a digi camera for some time and this will give me the excuse I need to buy one.

Will have a pic posted by next week hopefully.

In the mean time I'll lurk round the site and read up about propagation in anticipation of getting some seeds from Chuck when he's finished flowering :shock:

Thanks

Australopithecus

Edited by Australopithecus
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No worries about the picture, it took me about a year after joining the forum before I figured out how to post pics!!

Heather

Errrm, I can't figure out how to upload/post an image ?

I was expecting to see a Manage Attachments option somewhere but can't see it.

I've had a look in Forum HELP but found nothing about attaching images.

Australopithecus

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Hi

Try the Photo Hosting section........you should be be able to upload your photos and then link to them.

Heather

Hi Heather, sorry I must be really thick or something. I've managed register to upload photos but every time I try to upload a pic I get a File size too big error message.

It wont let me upload anything bigger than 0.2Mb which seems a bit small to me.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll figure it out in the end.

As for Chuck and Arnie they are both doing very well. The flowers have now shrivelled up and the traps are starting to turn pink.

Looking at the pictures I've taken they highlight a green sheen that has appeared on the top of the soil ( which I assume is algae ) also, I think moss is starting to grow in one of the pots.

Is this good or bad for the plants ?

Hope to have some pics up soon

Australopithecus

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I had the same problem recently with the file size being too big - see the thread below for how to reduce the size.

http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26161

As for the moss and algae, its doenst look very nice but shouldnt do your plants any harm. If you dont like it then just scrape the algae off/pull the moss out and replace with fresh soil. I tend to do this every now and then so it looks nicer but it shouldnt do any harm to leave it.

Sounds like your plants are doing ok now!

Heather

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I had the same problem recently with the file size being too big - see the thread below for how to reduce the size.

http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26161

As for the moss and algae, its doenst look very nice but shouldnt do your plants any harm. If you dont like it then just scrape the algae off/pull the moss out and replace with fresh soil. I tend to do this every now and then so it looks nicer but it shouldnt do any harm to leave it.

Sounds like your plants are doing ok now!

Heather

Hi Heather

Thanks for the link.

I think I'll leave the moss and algae if it's not any harm to the plants then.

Yes they're doing very well, sending up traps like they're going out of fashion. Hope I'm around when one of them manages to have a snack.

Thanks

Australopithecus

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi

No I haven't forgot about the pic's just been busy of late that's all. I will post some soon I promise.

Anyway I have another question.

I have been monitoring the traps daily to see if any insects have been caught and I suspect that Arnie may have caught something.

There are so many traps now at various stages of development that I'm having trouble remembering which traps are fully developed ones and which ones are new but just haven't opened yet.

There is one trap which is closed and I thought it was a new one but upon close inspection there is a definate bulge to the trap and a shadow where the bulge is. Also, the fingers to the trap point outwards. Is this indicative of a trap that's caught an insect ?

I inadvertantly false triggered one of Chucks traps the other day and that also has a bulge but no shadow and the fingers are pointing outwards.

Are there any signs I can look for that will tell me if a trap has caught something or if it is just a new trap about to open ?

Thanks

Australopithecus

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Hi Australopithecus

Yep, sounds like your vft has caught itself some lunch, if you can see a shadow then this normally means theres something inside the trap. The spines also point outwards when the trap has fully sealed ready to digest the insect.

Normally if you trigger the trap accidently they normally re-open before they seal shut properly unless they have been triggered sufficiently so the trap thinks there's something inside when there isnt.

I think the only way to tell whether they have caught something is just to keep a close eye on them, after a while you will be able to recognise which traps have caught something and which ones are new traps, although the new ones usually look quite different - they start off closed but also the spines emerge from inside the closed trap. I'll try to take some pictures later on tonight to show you the difference.

Heather

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Hi Heather

Yes, from what you have described it looks like both traps have sealed, the empty one has been closed for nearly 48hrs now so I assume the bulge in the empty one is from digestive juices entering the trap.

I've been looking at them just now and I can see what you mean about the different orientation of the fingers on new traps and ones that have been triggered.

From now on I think I'll leave them well alone apart from watering them.

I was thinking of re-potting them but they are so sensitive I think if I did that all the traps would trigger which wouldn't do them much good I suppose.

I'll wait until winter and then re-pot.

I'm glad Arnie has had a nose bag :biggrin:

pity I wasn't around to see it happen but you can't have everything I suppose.

Cheers

Richard

edit - when the trap reopens will there be remains of the insect visible ?

Edited by Australopithecus
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Hi

Some people prefer to wait until winter to repot but I find it doesnt do any harm if you re-pot in the middle of summer. Unless they're really outgrowing the pot then I'd leave them as they are for now. You normally end up triggering a lot of traps during re-potting but its near impossible not to, they soon recover though.

When the trap re-opens you will be able to see the exoskeleton of whatever its eaten. I've never managed to catch my vfts trapping anything unless I've purposely fed them so you'll have to keep a close eye on them if you want to see them in action!!

Heather

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Hi Heather

I had another look at them tonight and I've noticed that the empty trap is just starting to open up again so it looks as though the VFT knows there's nothing inside it.

One other thing I,ve noticed, Chuck seems to be sucking water up out of its tray alot faster than Arnie and its soil looks alot more damp aswell. I wonder if this has something to do with the fact that Chuck flowered and Arnie didn't ?

Does a VFT need plenty of water for it to flower ?

Richard

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Hi Richard

A bit of a late reply from me - sorry!! Personally I havent noticed that flowering plants require more water, although I keep all mine together in one big tray so its impossible to tell how much water each of them is using. Is one vft bigger than the other?? This would explain it using more water or perhaps the soil mixes are different and one of them retains water better than the other.

Heather

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Hi Richard

A bit of a late reply from me - sorry!! Personally I havent noticed that flowering plants require more water, although I keep all mine together in one big tray so its impossible to tell how much water each of them is using. Is one vft bigger than the other?? This would explain it using more water or perhaps the soil mixes are different and one of them retains water better than the other.

Heather

Hi Heather

No it's definately the soil that's got more water in it ( looks and feels wetter than the other one ) I just thought perhaps the saturated soil stimulated that particular one into flowering. I was surprised when it did flower because it was the weaker looking of the two, ie smaller with less leaves and slower to start growing.

BTW the trap that caught a fly ( it looks like a moth actually ) is just begining to open again now. I've had a quick peep inside it and there still seems to be quite a bit of mass left inside the trap. I hope this VFT doesn't need Gaviscon or something :sick:

:(

Richard

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I just thought perhaps the saturated soil stimulated that particular one into flowering.

Nope, I imagine thats down to good old mother nature - increasing daylight hours in spring trigger flowering as it does in a lot of other plants. Not easy to say why one flowered and the other or didnt, perhaps one is older and therefore more likely to flower. I know you say the smaller one flowered but being bigger doesnt neccessarily mean its the oldest!

As for the mass left in the trap -there's normally quite a bit of the prey left inside but it should have digested the softer bits of it. For vfts kept outside normally the rain should was away the remains, mine are inside so I normally just leave it as it is. If you try to remove it you normally just end up triggering the trap again.

Heather

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One other thing I,ve noticed, Chuck seems to be sucking water up out of its tray alot faster than Arnie and its soil looks alot more damp aswell. I wonder if this has something to do with the fact that Chuck flowered and Arnie didn't ?

Does a VFT need plenty of water for it to flower ?

The amount of water that a small plant will be using is almost visibly unperceivable over short periods of time so I doubt that you would notice one using more than the other. The majority of water that you observe being used is actaully being lost to evaporation from both the water and soil surface.

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As for the mass left in the trap -there's normally quite a bit of the prey left inside but it should have digested the softer bits of it. For vfts kept outside normally the rain should was away the remains, mine are inside so I normally just leave it as it is. If you try to remove it you normally just end up triggering the trap again.

Heather

Hi Heather

Yes I'll leave well alone I think besides it must have the better part of 20 traps now at various stages of development so I think one trap with remains in it is no big deal.

Richard

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The amount of water that a small plant will be using is almost visibly unperceivable over short periods of time so I doubt that you would notice one using more than the other. The majority of water that you observe being used is actaully being lost to evaporation from both the water and soil surface.

Hi Mobile

Yes I thought that may have been happening so I covered up the trays with some white plastic card to reflect the sun light and reduce the water loss through evaporation ( until I get a water butt set up in my garden rain water remains a precious commodity for me ).

I cut a hole in the plastic for the pots to fit through.

I did take some pics but the white of the cards made the pictures poor quality so I'll take the pots out of the tray and then take some more pics.

Thanks

Richard

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