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D. "Akai Ryu"

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D. "All Red"

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D. "Fused Tooth"

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D. "Miniature form"

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D. "Red Piranha"

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D. "Sawtooth"

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Strange trap of D. "All Red"

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D. "UK Sawtooth II"

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Some traps

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Drosera filiformis

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Bye

Edited by amaury

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Looking great, Amaury. A whole lot better than my pathetic little plants battling with the sphagnum outside at the moment. :cool:

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Let's go :shock:

Sarracenia leucophylla "Schnell Ghost"

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Sarracenia flava atropurpurea

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Some Sarracenia

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Drosera capensis "All Red"

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Dionaea "Red Piranha" :)

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Dionaea "Tiger Teeth"

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Dionaea "Fine Tooth x Red" The true one

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Airplane view

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Dionaea "Fine Tooth x Red" The false one

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My favourite : Dionaea "Bohemian garnet"

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Seedlings 2006

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Dionaea "All Red"

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Strange dionaea with sometimes "white" traps!

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Dionaea "X11"

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Bye

Edited by amaury

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Hi Amaury

I would be interested to see more pictures of the real finetooth x red as the season progresses!! I think the other one (the one I'm growing anyway) is just the same as big mouth.

Would you be able to describe the main difference that you can see?? And what makes you sure that its the true one??

P.S. Excellent pics!

Heather

Edited by LJ

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Nice, healthy plants you've got over there!!! :shock:

Are you going to make (by pollinating) some new crosses this year?

I'm trying to take some flower stalk cutting this year, let's hope it 'll show some results...

Hear you soon!

Greetings,

Vincent

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Hi Amery,

I believe that the second pictured Finetooth X Red clone is the same as the clone now sold as Big Mouth, but I believe that is the true Finetooth X Red and that what we have now is not the true Big Mouth.

My reasons are: I have been growing FTXR since 2002 and they are all like the 2nd picture. I have also crossed sawtooth (Finetooth) with Red clones and the results always look line the 2nd FTXR. Plus I have a Big Mouth clone I received from the U.S. in 2002 before Triffid Park started selling a clone under that name and it is different from the Triffid Park Big Mouth clone.

What makes you think that the first picture is the true FTXR?

Trev :-)

  • Like 1

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Hmm very interesting, so it could be the Big Mouth that is the imposter and not the Finetooth X Red.

Trev, perhaps you could post a picture of the 2 different Big Mouths you have? It will be good to get some more information from Amaury about his Finethooth X red clones too.

It would be great to get to the bottom of the big mouth and finetooth x red issues that have been puzzling me for a while!!

Looking forward to seeing the replies :yes:

Heather

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Firstly, thank you for your comments :yes:

I know more than 4 different plants who are called "Fine Tooth x Red", it's a very problem when people use names already existing...

It's the same problem with a lot of dionaea cv! I have the true "All Red" but most of the All Red that we can find on the internet are simple red clone, ... The "true" All Red has not been selected, it's more than a form, it's a "natural" variety (very interesting for the breeding because nearly all seeds are red; it's note the case for the others red forms!!!).

About "Fine Tooth x Red", I bought them on Best Carnivorous Plants website 4 years ago...

The "false FTXR" could be a Giant Big mouth like you said.

The one I called the True has very long teeth but has as not red traps as the other :yes:

I have an other "FTXR n°1" bought in a French producer : http://www.karnivores.com/boutique_de_plan...es/dionaea.html

These plants are not the same plants than these coming from Best Car Plants!

It can be very interesting to make an official page with pics of the real forms because it's the anarchie.

Trev an LJ, your pics interest me! :yes:

Regards,

Amaury

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@ Vincent : This year, I will let Fused Tooth, Bohemian Garnet and All Red flower, I'll try to cross them If they flower at the same moment :yes:

When I will have more time, I'll complete my topic about my 2007 breedings with pics of invitro plants who seem to be crazy!

One of them make traps who are totaly white but I think it's certainly not viable (symptoms of vitrification).

Let's see

Edited by amaury

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@ Vincent : This year, I will let Fused Tooth, Bohemian Garnet and All Red flower, I'll try to cross them If they flower at the same moment :yes:

When I will have more time, I'll complete my topic about my 2007 breedings with pics of invitro plants who seem to be crazy!

One of them make traps who are totaly white but I think it's certainly not viable (symptoms of vitrification).

Let's see

I've got the same problem over here. It's the first time that I want to pollinate my dionaea flowers.

I already had some interesting crosses in my head, but now they are all flowering at a different time...

But I'll be happy if I have some succes, it doesn't matter which cross it is...

Good luck!!

Greetings,

Vincent

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Hi Amaury,

Nice VFT setup you have there, and thanks for the pics!

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Hi Amery and Heather,

Amery, Great pictures by the way.

This is the oldest picture I have of Finetooth X Red, I saved it to my computer in 2002, but I dont know who's it is.

http://www.freewebs.com/vftshop/images/big...tooth%5Fred.jpg

This is the FTXR clone that I sell from the VFT Shop, it originates from CZ plants in 2002.

http://www.freewebs.com/vftshop/images/bigPics/FTXR3sm.JPG

This is the Big Mouth Clone that I sell

http://www.freewebs.com/vftshop/images/bigPics/bigmosm.JPG

It originates from Triffid Park in 2004. I asked them where their source originated and this was the answer: "The Big Mouth's I have bought in from another company who retail them as this name"

You'll have to wait until tomorrow for the other Big Mouth picture as I dont have one, so I will take one in the morning and post it here then.

Trev :-)

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This is the Big Mouth plant from the USA in 2002, as you can see it doesn't have the thick teeth.

http://www.freewebs.com/vftshop/images/big...usaBigMouth.jpg

Around 2001/2002 Big Mouth was a lost clone, it seemed to exist in legend only, no one seemed to have one but everyone was looking for one. There was a story that it had been re-named Red Purple. I did extensive research and found out that Colin Clayton of triffid Park claimed to have done this.

This was the 1998 ICP cultivar database description of Big Mouth:

"A comparison of a conventional sized trap and the [Dionaea ' Big Mouth ' {T.Camilleri}] variety (sic!) which produces large traps on very short leaves."

Trev.

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Hi Trev and Amuary

Thanks for the update. I have two big mouth clones, one of them is the French clone (from Karnivores.com) - they call it giant big mouth but its the same as my other big mouth and my finetooth x red (which is the same as the one Amuary calls false). I have noticed the French finetooth x red clones from Karnivores.com also look different, they have 2 different clones too which further confuses the matter.

There is a difference in the two big mouth clones from Trev, they are similar but as Trev mentioned the teeth look thicker on one of them.

There are a few pics of the Triffid Park red-purple clone on http://www.humboldt.edu/~rrz7001/Dionaea.html and these do look like Trevs USA big mouth clone that doesnt have the thick teeth.

There is a whole range of finetooth x red pics, mostly looking like big mouth and some looking completely different to both!

Perhaps the american members might know more??? Though not sure how likely it it that we'll fine someone who is growing a big mouth clone that they got before it seemed to get lost in cultivation.

Heather

Edited by LJ

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It originates from Triffid Park in 2004. I asked them where their source originated and this was the answer: "The Big Mouth's I have bought in from another company who retail them as this name"

The "another company" will almost certainly be Paradisia Nurseries also based here in Melbourne. They've been selling plants labelled as "Big Mouth" since at least 2000.

In my opinion the whole situation is a bit of a farce really. Too many plants separated from one another for trivial reasons that creates more confusion than anything else.

Edited by Sean Spence

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Thanks for the pics and information :yes:

N: $[Dionaea ' Big Mouth ' {T.Camilleri}]

P: Carniv.Pl.:16 (1998)

S: =[Dionaea muscipula {Soland. ex Ellis}]

HC: name not registered with IRA, description insufficient

B: ?, before 1998

Nominant: T.Camilleri, 1998

Description: Carniv.Pl.:16

"A comparison of a conventional sized trap and the [Dionaea ' Big Mouth ' {T.Camilleri}] variety (sic!) which produces large traps on very short leaves."

Standard: Carniv.Pl.:16 (1998)

Etymology: after comparatively big leaf lamina

http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cultivars/diocult.html

Trev, this description is very basic, it can be a lot of cultivars :woot:

WOW

Interesting form of X11! Anymore picture of this form??

X11 is one of the more interesting plants produce by BCP (for me).

Soon more pics...

Edited by amaury

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The Fine Tooth x Red we usually see has also been going under the name "Australian Red Rosette" as well, whatever that means.

Big Mouth seems to look almost identical to FTxR, but it has more of a clumping habit I've noticed. My FTxR has never really clumped like the mound of traps BM seems to produce.

Maybe they're just siblings from the same batch of seedlings?

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I've also heard the same about australian red rosette but mine arent big enough to directly compare them yet. I havent noticed a difference with regards to BM clumping more than FTxR but I'm still pretty new to all this, I'll be keeping a closer eye on them all though to see!!

No doubt as time goes on we'll find many more vfts that are the same or almost the same but have different names. Long red fingers and cross teeth also appear to be the same clone :cool:

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A couple more to add to that:

FTXR / Big Mouth / Australian Red Rosette also seems to go by the name "Big Teeth Red Giant".

Cross Teeth / LRF also seems to be the same as "Lips and Lashes"

Trev.

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New pics :shock:

D. 'Fused Tooth'

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D. 'Red Piranha'

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Sarracenia leucophylla x Judith

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Sarracenia leucophylla "pink and white"

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Edited by amaury

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