N. Clipeata

[Michael Z]

Hello,

I' am interested in the growing temperature of N. clipeata. Actually N. clipeata should be a lowland plant, but I've learned that a lot of people are growing them under intermediate or highland conditions. So I have decided to grow my one under highland conditions too. But it is growing very slow. Is this normal or should I give other growing conditions to it?

Has anybody any idea?

Michael

[Rob-Rah]

Mine in rather bright lowland conditions, but it still grows slowly!

[Guest Andreas Eils]

Servus Michael,

Nepenthes clipeata is always reported to be a slow grower even under almost ideal conditions. In my experience I would say this species is doing best under warm days between 26 - 28°C and a good decrease in temperature for the night - 6 to 8°C difference to day temperature. It likes a bright place, but my specimens are about 50cm away from the fluorescent tubes and are growing well nevertheless. Wistuba mentioned N. clipeata shouldn´t be kept warmer than 30°C although it tolerates higher temperatures for a couple of weeks. But during very warm periods in summer I noticed my Clipeatas grew conspiciously slower than usual and may also develop much smaller pitchers.

Hope, this information is useful for you.

Regards,

Andreas

[phissionkorps]

Nepenthes clipeata is always reported to be a slow grower even under almost ideal conditions.

Stimmts. Vielleicht 'ne Blatte alle 1.5 Monaten (fuer mich)....

(ich zucht sie tieflandartisch)

Clipeata should also have a very well drained media (95% orchid bark/perlite with a touch of peat).

[Sockhom]

during very warm periods in summer I noticed my Clipeatas grew conspiciously slower than usual and may also develop much smaller pitchers.

Andreas

My clone U is exactly behaving the same way.

Friendly,

François.

[An D Smith]

Hi Michael

I have been growing my clipeata for around 5 years now. It started off in lowland conditions where it grew very slowly. After selling all of the lowlanders, I decided to keep this one and try it in highland conditions. Since then it has grown slightly faster and steadily and is now 'mature'. I actually have it growing right next to N. villosa. I find that during the winter, despite highland heating and growlights, growth almost stops but during the summer it really picks up.

As all available clones originated at the Munich Botanic Gardens and there was a big mix up with the seed, how sure is everyone that what they are growing is the real thing? I always think photos of the plant in the wild look slightly different to those in cultivation, and it would appear that they like different conditions too. Even the cross clipeata x (clipeata x eymae) is dubiously named. These plants came out of the Munich Botanic Garden at the same time as the species (the same seed set?) and yet the Gardens have no record of a clipeata x eymae plant. I don't think the definate truth will ever be known.

cheers

Andy

[Sockhom]

I decided to keep this one and try it in highland conditions. Since then it has grown slightly faster and steadily and is now 'mature'. I actually have it growing right next to N. villosa. I find that during the winter, despite highland heating and growlights, growth almost stops but during the summer it really picks up.

Andy

Hi Andy !

That could mean that this species would appreciate intermediate conditions?

Maybe i have to take my clipeata from its lowland tank in summer to set it in my garage (where conditions are roughly intermediate in summer). Then, i would put it back in lowland conditions in winter (note: my winter lowland conditions in winter are less hot than in summer and my winter highland conditions are almost ultrahighland).

Friendly,

François.

[Guest Seree]

N. clipeata is slower than N. truncata?

[An D Smith]

Hi Francois

That sounds perfect. You will have to let me know how it does.

Hi Seree

In my experience clipeata is much slower than truncata, especially the highland/intermediate form which is slower than the lowland form.

Cheers

Andy

[Dicon]

I grow the "supposed" clippeata x (clippeata x eymae) cross in warm-intermediate conditions (max 28 min 16) with good air movement.

The species comes from Mt Kelam 800-1200m and bang on the equator..... hence warm-intermediate.

I find my clone fairly steady but not slow.

[phissionkorps]

Andy:

Wistuba's clone 1, 2, 3, and U are all the true species. Wistuba is apparently the only source of the species.

Wistuba's clone 3 is a male.

Wistuba's clone 6 is a hybrid.

Clone 1 (not Wistuba's) aka clip x clip x eymae aka JDK hybrid originated from DeKanel. It is a hybrid.

Then theres the obvious clip x eymae.

The "real thing" is pretty easy to tell apart from suspected hybrids. Juvenile plants of the true species making the secondary leaf form can easily be confused for hybrids if one compares the leaves, so you need to know the differences between them pretty well.

[manders]

Andy:

Wistuba's clone 1, 2, 3, and U are all the true species. Wistuba is apparently the only source of the species.

Wistuba's clone 3 is a male.

Wistuba's clone 6 is a hybrid.

Clone 1 (not Wistuba's) aka clip x clip x eymae aka JDK hybrid originated from DeKanel. It is a hybrid.

Then theres the obvious clip x eymae.

The "real thing" is pretty easy to tell apart from suspected hybrids. Juvenile plants of the true species making the secondary leaf form can easily be confused for hybrids if one compares the leaves, so you need to know the differences between them pretty well.

Were does Wistubas 'Mt Kelam' clone originate?

I've got 5 clones at the moment all grwoing in highland/intermediate conditions, they all seem very easy but slow, cant see any difference in growth rate between hybrids and 'true' species.

Edited November 10, 2007 by manders

[phissionkorps]

Were does Wistubas 'Mt Kelam' clone originate?

I have no idea. I don't know anything about his clones other than what I posted. I do know he had some other clones that he used to sell as the species, then removed them because he found out they were hybrids. Though he no longer sells clone 1, it is because he lost it from culture and not because it is a hybrid. Perhaps the Mt. Kelam clone is from collected seed from the 90s or something? I doubt it being a mericlone from one of the plants the Germans/Japanese took from the wild, as no one (I know of) was doing mericloning back then.

[Guest Andreas Eils]

Hello,

The "real thing" is pretty easy to tell apart from suspected hybrids. Juvenile plants of the true species making the secondary leaf form can easily be confused for hybrids if one compares the leaves, so you need to know the differences between them pretty well.

Which you can explain more exactly?

Wistuba´s seeds are all originating from Munich Botanic Gardens. He himself has never been on Mount Kelam - that´s what he told me personally.

To be honest due to all the discussion about whether the true Clipeata is traded or not I am actually still unsettled what I grow. Wistuba just guarantees his clones 2, 3 and "u" would be the true species. And I have no idea why he is so sure about it. I´ve also talked to Christian Klein - a very skilled CP grower - who assured me Wistuba´s clone 2, 3 and "u" are the "real thing". What I have heard is at Munich Botanic Gardens a male and a female N. clipeata have flowered at the same time or at a low distance of time (pollen could have been stored cooled). Also that time a Nepenthes eymae has flowered (don´t ask me if male or female). So, a botanist has crossed the two Clipeatas and the Eymae with Clipeata. And then there has been a mixup with the seeds and the hybrid has come into flow as Nepenthes clipeata. (I know some more details but don´t want to make them public.)

According to that story there must have been also seeds of the true species Clipeata! How Wistuba has distinguished his true clones from the hybrid clones I don´t know.

The hybrid N. clipeata x [eymae x clipeata] doesn´t origin from Munich Botanic Gardens, I think...Andy?

It´s not that I choose the plants I wanna grow by names. I wanted to grow N. clipeata because of the pictures Robert Kresanek made on Mount Kelam. And if my plants (most importantly their pitchers) will look very closely to those plants on Robert´s photos I´ll be happy irrespectively if my plants are the true species or not. But I have to wait a couple of years until my plants are adult (almost adult)

Kind regards,

Andreas

[Michael Z]

Hi,

thank you for all your replies! Very interesting that nobody really knows whether there is a real clipeata in culture.

@ phissionkorps: Vielen Dank!

Michael

[christerb]

Were does Wistubas 'Mt Kelam' clone originate?

I have to say that it is a strange clone name since this species has so far only been found on Mt Kelam. Had there been other locations it would make more sense.

Edit: On the other hand this "clone" might just be that you get a plant without any specific clone number.

Regards,

Christer

Edited November 10, 2007 by christerb

[phissionkorps]

Andreas, AFAIK, the story you told is correct. Some of these seeds also got to DeKanel, who made his own clones. Wistuba was able to tell the hybrids from the species by growing them out, and comparing them. Obviously clip x eymae would not fit the type description of clipeata itself. Not only do I trust Wistuba's word when we says the species is the species (especially considering the fact that he pulled hybrids from sale), but I have looked at probably every single clipeata picture and info available on the internet (and compared with my U), and have come to the same conclusions.

AFAIK, clip x clip x eymae originates from DeKanel, and not the MBG. Some say it is from MBG, others say the time frame is too far off. To tell you the truth, I haven't seen any info definitively proving either of the opposing theories.

About telling species and hybrids apart:

Clipeata is the only nep that makes 3 different types of leaves. Cotyledons, juvenile leaves, and adult leaves. Clipeata hybrids only make 2 types of leaves like most normal neps, and the normal leaves they produce can be confused with the juvenile leaves of the species at first glance. They both have sort of a truncate-ish type of shape. I'd elaborate with pics, but I'm in a hurry ATM and don't have time to hunt around to exemplify this. When a plant gets older, you can tell the "real thing" easily by leaf shape and tendril insertion. The true species will always have round/SLIGHTLY oval leaves, after all, that is why the species was named (clipeus = shield). Hybrids have various leaf shapes. Also, hybrids will vine, and the true species never will. Clipeata always keeps a VERY short internode distance throughout it's life...on the order of a few mm's. The true species is also very hairy (red hair), which can be found all over the plants, and is very noticeable on the leaf margins in particular. Hybrids display various levels of hairyness, but are never as hairy as the species. Adult pitchers are also easy to distinguish from hybrids. The mouth is usually barely slanted eg 15°, while hybrids vary in their slant, but some slant up to 45°. The species also has a domed hood which is helf very tightly to the mouth. This varies in hybrids, but is very easy to distinguish nonetheless. The true species is infundibular in the first 2/3's of the pitcher, and bulbous in the last 1/3rd. Hybrids very often are not. In the species, the wings also end right at or very close to the point where the pitcher ceases being infundibular. Hybrids differ, and IIRC, clip x eymae has wings all the way down the pitcher.

Of course, there is always going to be variation, especially in a genus which can exhibit this degree of polymorphism, but as a general rule, clipeata is not very variable at all. If it looks like a hybrid, there's about a 99% chance that it is.

[manders]

Of the 5 clones of this plant i'm growing, Wistuba 2, U & Kelam, BE and 'mystery plant from dodgy Ebay seller' only the Mystery plant looks different and is clearly a Eymae * Clipeata Hybrid. It lacks the reddish coloration of the true clipeata's and has the typical hairy leaf surface of eymae (clipeata has smooth leaf surfaces). All the rest look indistinguishable at the moment.

[phissionkorps]

BE has sold clipeata? I'm unaware of this...when was it sold? I'd keep an eye on it's development. AFAIK, the only place to legally get the real clipeata is/was Wistuba.

[manders]

The one they sell is listed as (Clipeata * Eymae) * Clipeata, i bought it through CZ plants who listed it as Clipeata... At the moment though all these 4 clones are indistinguishable, only the Clipeata * Eymae Shows any differences but these are very obvious.

BE has sold clipeata? I'm unaware of this...when was it sold? I'd keep an eye on it's development. AFAIK, the only place to legally get the real clipeata is/was Wistuba.