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It Is The True S.flava Red Burgundy?


AndreaC

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For what it's worth, this is a division of a plant of mine, acquired from PJ Plants (ex Marston Exotics ? as I understood). My parent plant is considerably redder however - perhaps it is just taking time to redden up after root disturbance.

I will post photos of the parent plant thsi evening as well.

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Guest Sheila

No that isn't 'burgundy' that is more like rubricorpora

berg004.jpg

This is my 'Burgundy', the pitchers can be even darker than this photo, they don't have that veining in the lid like your one does.

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In my opinion that plants is simply a CV "Claret"..it has got the same hood and proportions........It wouldn't be the first time that I hear this misapprehension: many people calls "burgundy or red burgundy" both two plants (F25 & F26 of Mike King's growlist ...)

I also had received a so-called "Red-Burgundy"...then I knew for sure that was IDENTICAL to my original CV Claret... :rolleyes:

Edited by frangelo
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I classify S.flava rubricorpora cv. claret ok? :thanks:

No!..i don't think it is wise to just classify it as being cv. "Claret", unless your 100% sure that it is!

This is how things go wrong..and a misidentified plant will go circle around...

Anyone please correct me if i'm (partly) wrong..but it's just this "Just classifying as" that brings things in a heap of trouble!

We shoulden'd "Just name something"...we should be sure of what we buy!..and to accomplish this, the naming of plants must be done with real care..

We cannot afford to be sloppy in this if you ask me..

Additions, comments, corrections welcome..

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Hi guys,

Just to clear something up. There are a lot of plants with tags of 'Bugundy' and 'Claret' which are clearly not. There was a nursery some years ago selling anything red tube as 'Burgundy' and this has led to a lot of confusion.

Here is the true 'Burgundy' and if you have a copy of Adrian Slack's 2nd book will find it stands up well:

S%20flava%20var%20rubricorpora,F26,%20CV%20

With 'Claret', this is not so clear as there is only a description and no photo. I have 4 candidate plants here which are labelled F25A through to D from 4 seperate sources, all well known growers and all have had direct contact with the old Marston Exotics nursery from 1987 and earlier.

Just to show you what a problem it is with so called named plants derived from seed and calling it the same as the parent, here is a self pollinated seedling taken from 'Burgundy' and this is the result:

S%20flava%20Var%20rubricorpora,F55.jpg

Very nice, but it isn't a claret, nor a 'Burgundy' nor a 'Red Burgundy'.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Danny I'm with you 100%.

It can be really disappointing when buying a plant you are told is a clone of a particular cultivar only to get it home and growing to find it is clearly not what you thought it was.

I lost a Daniel Rudd a few years back and wanted to replace it, I then purchased a replacement from a nursery only to find the plant didn't look anything like the true clone. Even though it is a stong grower, it is not one that I would have particularly chosen so I feel like I wasted my money.

Dave.

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In my opinion that plants is simply a CV "Claret"..it has got the same hood and proportions........It wouldn't be the first time that I hear this misapprehension: many people calls "burgundy or red burgundy" both two plants (F25 & F26 of Mike King's growlist ...)

I also had received a so-called "Red-Burgundy"...then I knew for sure that was IDENTICAL to my original CV Claret... :whistling:

This is interresting as well...

I kind of overlooked your reply, so please excuses the late reaction..

But how can you know it is exactly the same as your "Original cv. Claret"???

Nobody know's what the original looks like to begin with!!, Mike has 3 clone's that COULD BE cv. Claret.

The problem is, that there's only a written explanation about cv. Claret..and according to this writing Mike(and others) have plants that match up with the dicription as best possible...but even they are not sure witch is the original one.

So one can never be sure, one owns a original cv. Claret.

Please try to be carefull with plant names or cultivar names...things can(and probably will) go wrong when we get sloppy with this!

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This is interresting as well...

I kind of overlooked your reply, so please excuses the late reaction..

But how can you know it is exactly the same as your "Original cv. Claret"???

Nobody know's what the original looks like to begin with!!, Mike has 3 clone's that COULD BE cv. Claret.

The problem is, that there's only a written explanation about cv. Claret..and according to this writing Mike(and others) have plants that match up with the dicription as best possible...but even they are not sure witch is the original one.

So one can never be sure, one owns a original cv. Claret.

Please try to be carefull with plant names or cultivar names...things can(and probably will) go wrong when we get sloppy with this!

Well...I simply think to be able to call a plant Claret when Someone Trustful sold me that plant for Claret...and primarly when the 99% people in the world call the same clone "CV Claret"......oh: also the 90% of the Claret photos found in web are identical to my clone.......so I don't think it's necessary to relabel all the Clarets in the world as "MaybeClaret" :D (by the way: I really don't mean to say the only I have the original clone :D ah ah)

THAT clone has always been known as Claret so, if mr Adrian Slack never showed a photo I don't think that it will be necessary to find the trouble where the trouble really doesn't exist... :huh:

:D

PS: if I understood right Mike has got three clones (F25 A,B & C) only to care that they arrived to him from different paths.....but in the end they look like the same clone, don't they? (corrections welcome Mike :P) . Surely they are not very different rubricorporas that Mike keeps labelled as Claret only because the people that gave them to him says that they are Clarets.

PPS: ...and even if there is the 1% of differences between these clones, couldn't it be caused by decades od different cultivation conditions?

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Well...I simply think to be able to call a plant Claret when Someone Trustful sold me that plant for Claret...and primarly when the 99% people in the world call the same clone "CV Claret"......oh: also the 90% of the Claret photos found in web are identical to my clone.......so I don't think it's necessary to relabel all the Clarets in the world as "MaybeClaret" :D (by the way: I really don't mean to say the only I have the original clone :D ah ah)

THAT clone has always been known as Claret so, if mr Adrian Slack never showed a photo I don't think that it will be necessary to find the trouble where the trouble really doesn't exist... :huh:

:D

PS: if I understood right Mike has got three clones (F25 A,B & C) only to care that they arrived to him from different paths.....but in the end they look like the same clone, don't they? (corrections welcome Mike :P) . Surely they are not very different rubricorporas that Mike keeps labelled as Claret only because the people that gave them to him says that they are Clarets.

PPS: ...and even if there is the 1% of differences between these clones, couldn't it be caused by decades od different cultivation conditions?

Hi Francesco,

There are some slight differences between the clones and all 3 fit the written description! All 3 come from people who acquired the plant either directly from Adrian or from the original Marston Exotics from 1987 or earlier.. Something to add here. I have been to Adrian Slack's house in 1993 and I have seen his 'Claret' clones (I did a swap with him at the time) and they were actually 'Burgundy'!!! You work that one out! But that confirms one story that 'Burgundy' was being sold as 'Claret' and vice versa just to pump up sales just after Adrian's stroke in the spring of 1987.

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Man!,

This turns more difficult by the minute!

But!, i stand and stick with my theory that we all should be carefull with naming an labeling..

And we for sure DO NOT "just name a plant", because it's got a few shared carachteristics...

Edited by Danny...
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