vic brown Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 I obtained this species from Reading University in spring, after spotting it lurking, and politely asked for a little clump. This week it has just started flowering, a nice, early Christmas present. I'm aware of the recent controversy over some pictures of this species, see http://www.humboldt.edu/~rrz7001/Utricularia.html, under this species. Lacking any clear photographs which definitively show the flower of this species, coupled with the fact that my copy of Taylor's monograph is wrapped up for Christmas, I'm posting a few shots here for discussion and help with confirming it's ID. Sorry if the pictures are a littkle blurry, but I couldn't wait days for the ideal sunlight to appear! Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efbiosis Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 Vic, Those are great photos! I think the consensus from other discussions on microcalyx boiled down to whether trap morphology conformed to what was in Taylor. It seems that the floristic characteristics for this section of utricularia are too fluid to rely on them for a firm diagnostic. Pull out a stolon and examine it under 20-40x lens on Christmas (while crossing your fingers) and hopefully you'll have microcalyx. Your microcalyx seems to closely resemble the examples under dispute, but again the only way to find out for sure would be to examine the traps. Check out the following site for pics of many different terrestial utrics: http://www.plantarara.com/carnivoren_galer...utricularia.htm The microcalyx shown there looks very different from the examples shown on the humboldt.edu site. Which may mean nothing at all if the pic isn't of microcalyx either! I have obtained four specimens from different sources and whittled down two of them based on trap morphology...the other two appear to conform to Taylors description. I'm hopeful, but I think they may be livida also...we will see. On a side note...I read somewhere that microcalyx flowers have a pleasant odor. Is there any smell from your flowers? Peace and good luck, Damon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tim. Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 That looks like the same plant as I have. It seems to be a particularly strange form of U. livida. Even out out of flower the traps it should be easy determine that it is not U. microcalyx based on trap shape (It should only have a few long hairs, rather than a many shorter bushy hairs). Looking at the calyx - the upper lobe should be only 1-2 mm long, with the lower one slightly shorter. Both lobes should be roughly circular and have a distinct notch. (The plant I have has calyx lobes that are about 3mm long, not rounded and have entire margins). The bumps on the palate margin also rule out U. microcalyx, as does the upper corolla lip that is constricted above the middle, and wider at the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic brown Posted December 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 Thanks for the replies guys :) I'll be digging out some traps and examining them under my toy microscope soon. Does anyone have a link to the other discussion? I tried searching for it yesterday, without success. To be honest, I can't remember if it was posted here at CPUK, on Terraforums or on the Listserve, but I wouldn't mind reading it again. Cheers Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 Hi Vic, you probably read this: http://omnisterra.com/pipermail/cp_omniste...hread.html#2292 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Hi, In the last days i have taken pictures of some traps from my Utricularia. Here are some pictures i have taken from my U. microcalyx and U. livida 'Mexico'. If i compare the traps with those shown in Taylor, at least my plant, is not Utricularia microcalyx but rather Utricularia livida as suspected here. Utricularia microcalyx Utricularia livida 'Mexiko' Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yves Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 Hi The trap morphology doesn't mach with U. microcalyx, according to Taylor. The closely related species are U. livida, U. arenaria and U. sandersonii. Could be a form of U. arenaria rather than U. livida or maybe an hybrid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanW Posted July 1, 2004 Report Share Posted July 1, 2004 'U. blue shaded beauty' ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 does not look like microcalyx in Taylor Vic. microcalyx spur is very long & almost vertical & the calyx is much smaller in relation to the flower (hence the name). leaves are also shown as petiolate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic brown Posted July 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 I know it's not U. microcalyx and based on Christian's excellent trap photos, a form of U. livida, or a very closely related species, seems most likely. Bob Ziemer has built up quite a collection of links to photos of 'U. microcalyx', all of which look similar to my plant as well as links to this discussion and the one on the ICPS Listserve; http://www.humboldt.edu/~rrz7001/Utricularia.html Despite the widespread discussion of this Utric, here and elswhere on the web, this little lovely Utric was still being offered for sale as U. microcalyx at the ICPS Conference in Lyon! I don't know if Peter Taylor is still active. I think he retired not long after the publication of his monograph in 1989. The CPS is holding a meeting at Kew Gardens in a couple of weeks, I'll ask around then. Perhaps someone will know if he can be contacted. Vic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenofeden Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 yes it looks a lot like a mexican U.livida. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 This is what i grow as U. microcalyx: http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~s010524...alyx_010804.jpg (97 kb) My apologies for the quite unclear picture. The flower is totally different than what has been posted... Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Rivadavia Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Hi Guys!! After taking a look in Taylor's monograph, my vote goes for U.livida! U.microcalyx is definitely out judging by those traps. And the corolla shape does not match that pf U.livida. A very nice form of U.livida indeed! :):) Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Hiemann Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 The trap and the flower of my "U. microcalyx" I suggest the name: Utricularia livida 'Beautiful Blue' Maybee someone can describe this form in the ICPS newsletter to clear the confusion. I can support the author with pics of all plant parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobZ Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Rico, nice photo. The trap does indeed look like that shown for livida by Taylor (Fig. 54a). The microcalyx trap is quite different (Taylor Fig 50). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Could this be "real" U.microcalyx? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Looks exactly like the 'U. microcalyx' that I have (which appears to key out to U. livida in Taylors). Here is my photo.. They are more blue looking than the picture indicates. More like the ones in your photo. They are also blooming their little heads off this time of year. Wasn't there some discussion on the listserve that it could potentially be a hybrid between U. livida (or another species) and U. sandersonii?? Anyone know more about that or seen any other U. sandersonii hybrids? Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Truesdell Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Pardon the poor quality, but here is another photo of U microcalyx/livida? that I aquired from Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Hi, As the flower of U. livida is quite variable it seems to be nearly impossible to say if the plant is a livida or something else. The trap seems to be the best indicator. regards, Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Tony: same here, flowering like hell... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Truesdell Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 Wanted to add this better photo here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobZ Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 As the flower of U. livida is quite variable it seems to be nearly impossible to say if the plant is a livida or something else. The trap seems to be the best indicator. To repeat, the trap is the definitive difference. Rico showed a trap of U. livida. Here is a comparison between the traps of U. livida and U. microcalyx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundewrex Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 These pics about trap of U. livida may help to identify.... hope it works rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Rivadavia Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 What fantastic pics of Utrics traps, congrats!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Hingst Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Hello, the plant I got as U. microcalyx started to flower - very similar to those flowers above. I had a closer look at some of the morphological details relevant for a taxonomic classification. I came to the same conclusion as others above that this plant could not be microcalyx, but I believe it's not u. livida either. It seems to belong to sect. Calpidisca, and there are three plants - esp. because of the trap shape - that I took to comparison: arenaria, livida, and sandersonii. I excluded bisquamata because of the smaller number of trap appendages. (scale, bract, bracteoles, lower calyx ) I don't think it's livida mainly because of two reasons (among others): the inflorescence is rel. short and bears only few flowers, like sandersonii and arenaria and unlike livida. And the leaves are all - even the broadest ones - single-nerved like arenaria, whereas I always found multiple-nerved leaves (next to single-nerved ones) in both my livida and sandersonii plants. Corolla and calxy reminds me on sandersonii, because of the long, slender, curved spur (both livida and arenaria have thicker, rel. shorter and not curved spurs), the face like color structure of the lower lip and the notched lower calyx lobe (arenaria: no notch; livida: if at all then only very slightly notched). Of course sandersonii doesn't match here either because of its white corolla and its strongly divided upper lip, whereas this plant has a more rounded, not divided upper lip like arenaria has (and some forms of livida as well). Another point that speaks against sandersonii and for livida/arenaria are the wrinkled crests on the lower lip base that is found in arenaria and livida but not in sandersonii, and the rel. broad bracts that would also match with arenaria/livida, but not sandersonii (slender ones, similar to the bracteoles). The plants have few, quite large scales compared to the bracts- like arenaria and unlike livida ( that has mostly many scales) and sandersonii (that has also few but comp. smaller or even no scales at all). I suggest this plant could be a hybrid of sandersonii and arenaria. I feel like having neglected bisquamata a bit in my thoughts - in a hybrid theory it could play a role as well. But nevertheless, these are just some first ideas. Any discussion is very welcome! Thanks and regards Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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