Greenhouse Questions ~ Nepenthes related questions

[-=Joel=-]

I have been lucky enough to be allowed an 8x6 greenhouse dedicated to Nepenthes.

I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice regards on the following:

Heating it in the winter - Electric, Parrafin ?

Lowest temperature I can let my highland species get without killing them ?

What is the best way to keep humidity up without spending a fortune on a misting system ? - I was thinking about keeping trays of water on the floor ?

Highest temperature in the summer ?

Staging - Do they prefer to hang or is it ok to let them sit on some staging and let them climb ? - At present I are sitting down indoors.

What is the best way to water a largish collection of plants ?

In winter should I let them dry out more than in the summer ?

I hope someone can help answer my questions and maybe add more info you think I may find useful.

Speak soon,

Joel

[wasted]

hiya,

I'm certainly no expert but here are my conditions which seem to suit the small amount of neps (10 species) that I grow, they all pitcher and seem relatively happy.

I only grow highlands, my neps are in a lean-too greenhouse on the back of my house, I use electric and parafin heating.

Heating-

Two electric heaters, one set at 12 degrees- stays on 24x7, one set at 24 degrees for day time temps running on a timer between 7am and 7pm - im sure these wont last more than a year or so but at £30 each im not to bothered...

i have an ancient (probably antique) parafin heater for emergencies.. ie.. power loss.. thing is, there is ALWAYS someone in the house so if the power goes someone will notice so im not running the risk of losing power and nobody noticing.

Lighting-

I have supplemental lighting (2 x four foot tubes) for the winter running for 14 hours a day, 7am till 9pm suspended about 12 inches above the neps.

Humidity-

I have two Bionaire ultrasonic humidifiers @ £60 each, again, one on low setting on a timer for the days and one on high setting with a timer for the nights, this gives me around 70% humidity at 24 degrees and around 95% at 12 degrees. In addition to this i have large trays filled with lfs and water immediately beneath my suspended neps..

I have fitted 3 auto vents for the summer months, these are set to open at 28 degree's.

Like i said, im certainly no expert.. but it works for me..

[manders]

Lowest temperature I can let my highland species get without killing them ?

Tricky question and youll gets lots of different opinions, it really depends which highlanders you decide to grow. There are probably a few which can take a light frost, many are ok as long as its frost free, even more are happy if it stays 10 deg or higher. On that basis you might want to stick to a 10 degC minimum.

In winter should I let them dry out more than in the summer ?

Yes, wet roots can kill some plants when its cold and dark for long periods. I lost a bongso and a gentle for that reason.

What is the best way to keep humidity up without spending a fortune on a misting system ? - I was thinking about keeping trays of water on the floor ?

Parrafin heaters generate moisture. Also the plants are unlikely to care what the air moisture level is over winter, so personally i wouldnt spend money on it.

[-=Joel=-]

Thank you for the help ... I had planned to keep temp around 10 in the winter, so its good to hear someone with the of same opinion Lol.

wasted - thank you for giving me info regards to equipment. I have since reading your post purchased a 3KW heater for a good price of £30 delivered !!

Would you, or anyone else, reconmend a fan for the summer months ? I am only able to fit one roof vent and leave the door open.

If anyone has pictures of the set ups they have, greenhouse only, please post them here.

Joel

[Dicon]

Hi Joel,

I grow mostly highland Neps, Orchids and a few Sarras etc.

I have two divided sections to my greenhouse to cater for most climate zones.

My house is about 15 ft x 14ft and 9 ft high.

WINTER

My primary heating is gas LPG which burns clean so long as it has a proper air supply and produces co2 & h2o (humidity) My secondary heater is a horticultural 3kw fan desiged to run 24/7 and brovide heat when required by its electronic stat.

the gas heats the warm section to 20 deg and much of its heat loss is into the cool to intermediate side which is then supplemented by the fan Heater.

SUMMER

the gas is there on pilot and keeps temps up on the odd cold day or night but i also use an aircon system to cool the highlanders by night and the hot output from that goes into the warm section taking with it the humidity it steals from the cool section.

this humidity is replaced by Hydrofogger which is capable of putting about 8 gal per hour into the air (if your water supply can keep up)as a "dry fog" it basically makes clouds!!

humidity in the warm section and auto watering is from overhead misting system which is basically pumped rain water (essential) and controllable to the second. I have storeage capability of over 1300 ltrs of which about 200 is kept purified and at house temp ie uv steralised and bio filtered then stored under the bench and continually aerated. this hugely reduces algae, bacteria,fungus,etc problems.

Summer cooling is via extractor fans circulating fans misting and fogging and most importantly by the use of a good quality shade cloth applied to the OUTSIDE...... THIS IS VITAL.

the max day temp you should aim for is about 28 deg c....I say aim for because no matter what you do, on the hottest days the temp will rise above 35

if it gets to 40 you will most likely lose plants.

this is why....plants dehydrate very rapidly at high temps. to reduce heat in the greenhouse, vents must open, this extracts with the heat, all the humidity thus leading to further dehydration.

so you must provide adequate shade and also insulation as well as ventilation.

Use bubble to insulate both summer and winter. in summer it helps keep up humidity diffuses the sunlight and lowers heat inside.

the most effective cheap way to keep up humidity is to spray water (can be tap) on the floor under the benches regularly when hot. use a hose timer and spray nozzles in an irrigation hose.

experiment with thermometers and hygrometers in different locations within the house. you will be amazed at the diff in temp from floor to bench to apex.

Hot tip if possible when building greenhouse, erect a proper wall 2+ blocks high (18 -24 in) and fix base to this. Provide a step up and down to the door

thus making more head room and more room for hot air above the growing zone (you can always reduce hight with bubble in winter to reduce bills.

SPEND GOOD MONEY ON GOOD EQUIPMENT. IF SOMETHING FAILS IT WILL COST HUNDREDS TO REPLACE PLANTS AND WORSE STILL YOUR TEN YEAR OLD VILLOSA OR RAJHA WILL HAVE TO BE REPLACED BY THE CRAPPY LITTLE EX VITRO SPECIMEN WE ALL HAVE TO START OFF WITH AND YOU WILL NEVER FLOWER ONE IN YOUR LIFETIME!!

XXXXX HOW MUCH IS THE COST OF THAT XXXX

........WHAT LOSS THESE THINGS TO ALL.

Any questions or for more specifics feel free to ask

Good advice is free, peace of mind costs a little.

[-=Joel=-]

Dont know how I missed this reply Dicon !!

Thank you ever so much for the detailed reply. Deffinatly food for thought.

I have purchased a heater that is supposedly have a climate control unit inside. So I set it to the right temp and if it ever goes below that it switches itself on and blows the warmed air around the greenhouse :)

Fingers crossed it all goes to plan Lol, I expect to loose one or two plants due to it being my first experience growing neps in a greenhouse however time is on my side, I hope, as im only 19 Lol.

Joel

[Dicon]

Joel'

experiment with the temp settings to be sure it reacts in the manner you want it to. hopefully it has a sensor that can be placed a little way from the heater itself (and not in the line of fire) otherwise it may turn off early when the body of the heater warms up which is irrelavent to the surrounding air temp.

Try to aim for min 13 deg at first and see how things go over a few weeks, then adjust down gradually.

also to save costs buy a growbag house or mini polythene (pvc) greenhouse from a garden centre (£20) and erect it in the greenhouse keep plants in that and heat from a safe distance (2 to 3 ft) at ground level (leave a 12" gap at bottom) so hot air blows up into mini house. this could save you 60% on lekky bills. BE SAFE WHEN USING ELECTRICITY IN DAMP ENVIRONMENTS

[-=Joel=-]

Do you have any pictures of your set up mate ?

Sounds like very professional. Even though I probably wont be able to put all you ideas into action it would be great to see them working.

Also is there a safe / safer way to house electronics in a humid greenhouse lol ?

Joel

[Leo]

Joel,

This might be useful for you..

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/part...ht+switches.htm

[hen]

Hey Joel,

My greenhouse at the moment is 10 x 8 and I grow a few neps inside. I house electrics by using an extension cord from the house which Is wrapped in a clear, tough plastic bag. You can unplug/plug things in through the plastic so you wont have to worry about splashing the plugs. I just use an aros £10 fan heater and a small convection heater for winter months aswell. I always have a rotating fan running 12months of the year. It keeps the air moving and allows the heat to spread evenly through the greenhouse and doesn't leave any standing air. You also get a nice effect of all the branches and leaves swaying in a breeze (very natural looking). In my opinion it works better than an extrator fan which I find tends to shock plants a bit by blowing air from outside straight onto them, whereas the standing fan brings air in to the greenhouse through natural air circulation.

I would definately take Dicon's advice, buying proper equipment is good idea. This winter alone I've had two powercuts due to blown fuses and come very near electric shocks many more times! I used to plug the extension into an outside terminal right near the greenhouse. One day I found the power had cut out, went to check the plug and found that the socket had begun to melt, the plastic casing on the plug had melted back in on itself and some loud crackling sounds could be heard! I tried to yank the plug out by its cord in my panic, at which the cables came out of the plug and were clearly rusted. Ever since last winter I have had the cord that runs outside threaded through a reinforced hose pipe, a powercut last year revealed that the cord had been chewed through by mice! I'm just moving things into my new homemade 20' x 10' x 9' greenhouse which is built as a three-quarter span up against a 6ft wall. It has some electrical terminals inside but it will all be heated by a large heated pond. I'm using an immersion heater and header tank running with a pump to keep it heated. I'm hoping to not have to use any extension cords, just weather proof terminals.

If you haven't already, use something like large stone tiles on a gravel underlay or simply cemented in as a flooring. Damping down is the most useful humidity tool and nothing rivals its effectiveness. I used to use a fogger with a fan but found that the cool, cloud like humidity wasn't particularly effective. Do you plan to only grow Nepenthes? because if you're going to grow other tropicals it will help with humidity alot. I don't have any benches in my greenhouse but have a lot of large leaved plants which helps to create a micro-climate. You may have a lot of potted nepenthes which need bench space so I appreciate that your space could be limited. If you can, you could try using victorian style gravel benches. These can be damped down and retain their moisture but let water drain from the pots easily. You could also try growing some ground cover under the benches: something like Trandescantia zebrina is perfect and will keep humidity up if you damp it down along with the floor (I've got heaps of spare Tradescantia and probably some little bromeliads etc if you need any? PM or email me if you want any). Lastly, If at all possible, try to have some sort of pond in there. Even if it's simply a long, open waterbutt underneath a bench. It will really help the humidity on hot days and will also act as a thermal regulator, letting heat off at night.

As for temperature, some people seem to suggest that 5C will be ok for highland nepenthes. But last powerfailure the greenhouse only went to 7C, yet all of my neps (including burbidgea and ventricosa) are showing some browning on leaves. 10C is a safe bet and allows you to grow a wide range of tropical plants, some anthuriums, orchids or other stove plants will probably need temperatures 15C and above though.

As you seem to already be suggesting, greenhouses are very much down to trial and error, sometimes methods change depending on the part of the country you live in or what your housing situation is. Some people prefer to use a lot of automated controls to keep everything running smoothly, personally I like to do a lot by hand as that way I can tell what particular plants' needs are. I also like a natural look to the greenhouse so I mount quite a lot of plants to logs and use a bit of landscaping. Others prefer a far more controlled atmosphere in the greenhouse, more like a terrarium where they can keep tabs on every plant easily and cater to its needs. When I started with my greenhouse I lost plenty of plants, but with advice from the forum there's no reason you can't get it right first time.

good luck!

[-=Joel=-]

Wow ... I love these replies. Thank you !!

Im nearly set with everything just need to get it built.

My plans are as followed:

Gravel Floor

Wooden benches ( I have to be organised sorry Lol)

Plants potted up using bark, peat, spag and perlite mix.

potted plants will have a topping of spag moss

Under the benches I plan to have lots of trays of water for humidity

I have a humidifer if I need it.

I have a fan heater with thermostat control

Will have a normal fan in the summer months

In the summer I will try to keep temp around 30 - 35

Depending on how well they do I may add some lighting also. Where they will be going, its the only place, it is pretty shaded but we shall see.

Hope all that sounds about right Lo. Thank you ever so much for all the help you have provided me with.

Joel

[Flytrap_canada]

I just lost a pile of prized Neps this winter. You can read all about my saga on our Canadian CP forum.

I was away when a winter storm hit the coast - freezing my water line (and bursting it) that serviced my greenhouse. I lost half my lowland plants and a few highlanders... including a large all red ampullaria that i'd grown for almost 20 years.

What killed off my plants was not the frigid temperatures (we hit average lows of -12C) ... it was the dryness of the air.

From what I gather, the dry heat from my electrical heaters had dessicated all the slat type pots , thus drying up the plants. So when the water supply ceased, the plant and growing medium became extremely dry. Contrast this to my neps who were in larger pots or in complete full plastic containers... these all survived.

So the hard lesson here is to make sure that there is a secondary water supply when you're not around to check.

I will be preparing a number of large rubber tubs of water fitted with sump pumps as backup water. And where we live in Canada, it gets fairly cold for extended periods.