oreophila or flava?

[Altair]

Hi!

I got this plant labeled as "S. oreophila [Triffid Park Australia]" but it seem more flava than oreo. The flower is a bit red so it's not a flava.

What do you think?

here are some pics:

thanks,

Vale

[Guest Aidan]

With red colouration showing in the petals it is neither pure S. flava nor pure S. oreophila. It must be a hybrid.

Are there phyllodia on the plant and what shape are they? Straight or curved?

[Alexis]

I have an oreophila with red speckling on the petals above the umbrella style.

The shape of the phyllodia will give it away. It might even be flava x oreophila.

[Altair]

phyllodia are not curved. I think it's a flava ornata X oreophila hibrid but I'd like to label it correctly.

I post a pic of the whole plant:

[Guest Aidan]

Alexis - According to Schnells' description, your plant is not pure either.

...sepals and pistils green; petals bright yellow;

Note the absence of any red colour in the flower parts as well as the yellow petals.

[Altair]

so there may be oreophila and flava with rubra introgression?

[Alexis]

Alexis - According to Schnells' description, your plant is not pure either.

I'm sure it's the Sand Mountain oreo - I'll have to have a look tomorrow.

[visee]

Hi Altair,

Interesting plant! I have observed the following traits:

Flava Traits:

1. Leave edges at the hood column are strongly reflected (flava trait)

2. Slender column shape (flava trait)

3. long petals

4. veining pattern in the hood looks like radiating from one point

5. erect phyllodia

6. Red column spot

7. flower scape slightly shorter than pitchers

Oreophila traits:

1. Small leave tip

2. hood column erect

3. some tendency for the phyllodia to be curved

4. hood angels at about 80 degrees

So, in my opinion it is a cross between flava and oreophila.

Considering the red blotch in the flower:

I have observed red markings of the stigma at the base of the sepetals in several oreophila's in my collection. O7, sand mountain, of Mike King, is a good example of this. O7 displays clear red spots in the sepetals and the red marking is even indented above the stigma, providing some crawling space for the pollinator. One other oreophila in my collection has only a small hint of red on this spot. This red coloration is in my opinion population or individual specific. So, I do not think that Don Schell is completely correct by stating that the flower for all oreophila's is completely yellow.

Jan

[Guest Aidan]

I've taken a look at my plants this morning. 31 flowers on 12 different clones. 3 clones show some red speckling on the under-surface of the sepals, which raises some questions. :? Petals on all plants are pure yellow and I can't see any red in the Sand Mountain flower.

[Alexis]

Just checked. Most of my Sand Mountain flowers have red underneath the sepals, although none on the petals.

[Davy]

I have an oreophilia which I have labled simply as 'heavily veined'

It shows the red speckling .

All other characteristics of flower and plant ,show it to be pure oreophilia

[toof]

To me the plant screams flava. The reflexed lid is a critical trait that usually eliminates oreophila. Secondarily, the veining is unusual for most oreophilas. Heavily veined oreos that I've seen in the field have the most dense veining within the tube. The plant in question has it's most dense veining radiating from the "throat," as commonly seen in flava. I've seen similar flavas in coastal Carolina. Then again, I've also seen similar flavas in Florida.

Sadly, Triffid doesn't have the best reputation for sending accurately described plants. Or at least, they seem to be more prone to errors.

Stefan

[Altair]

thank you and thanks everybody for the replays but what do you think about the red spots on the flower petals and sepals? It must be an oreophila hybrid becouse flava has only yellow flowers

[Iwein]

I had bought a similar plant from triffid park that was labeled flava 'heavily veined' x oreophila

plant cluster

And phyllodia

I also remember that in one if the latest ICPS journals there was an article about flava and oreophila plants in nature, being very hard to distinguish in the same colony...

[Alexis]

I think it's oreophila x flava. There is a lack of a spout on the nectar roll and from the front it looks like pure oreophila. The phyllodia are flava, along with the patterning. The spur on the lid says flava and the petals seem intermediate in shape between flava and oreophila.

The flava in the cross may have some genes from a red flowered sarracenia from back in its ancestry which is throwing up the red speckling on the petals.

[toof]

I also remember that in one if the latest ICPS journals there was an article about flava and oreophila plants in nature, being very hard to distinguish in the same colony...

I might be interpreting your comment incorrectly but, flava and oreophila don't have overlapping ranges. Their respective habits are also very different.

I haven't relied upon a red sepal or bract to distinguish these plants. This trait can be quite variable. I have flavas from the same seedpod with both red or yellow bracts. There might be a correlation with the amount of red the plant produces and a red bract. From personal observations I've noticed some of my reddest flavas have red bracts.

Another characteristic that hasn't been mentioned is stature. Oreos are usually significantly shorter and stockier. They also have a relatively arching growth habit. Mature flavas grown in adequate light will grow straight up from the rhizome. They also tend to be taller and thinner.

If this thread is still alive in a couple weeks, I'll take some images from my plants.

All the best, Stefan

[Iwein]

....I might be interpreting your comment incorrectly

No youre right.

The article is in the March 2004 Journal and mentions both are not in the same area.

The article is comparing several oreophila characterisitcs in different locations to flava.

[Alexis]

Oreos are usually significantly shorter and stockier. They also have a relatively arching growth habit. Mature flavas grown in adequate light will grow straight up from the rhizome. They also tend to be taller and thinner.

As a rule, but there are always exceptions. I have a very slender oreophila and some short stocky flavas!